American in America

Originally posted by rogervieri
few things I noticed:
1) between UTG & MP: you just added 22-44 & AJo...being oop most of the time, is it not to wide?
2) A2s-A9s & A2o-A9o are not mentioned...prob of domination? or because postflop, it's harder to play because of the weak kicker?
3) I wonder what your motives are from CO & BTN ♦

1. At most tables, it should be fine.
2. I wouldn't mess with weak unsuited aces from early positions - they're bad news for all sorts of reasons. At some tables I might open the suited ones early, but I would have to have a really good read on the table. You're basically hoping to flop a flush draw or they will get you in trouble. They will be tough to play out of position in multi-way pots (which often happens when you play a hand from EP & MP).
3. You mean my ranges from CO & BTN? Only one way to find out for sure ♦

Hey Verneer,

I'm really happy you found pokerstrategy :). (Actually I didn't heard of you be4 but I'm happy I know you know :rolleyes:)

I've read a lot of things you've written in the 2+2 thread and I'm pretty impressed. Really nice how you explain things and that you went back to the micro's to actually help others.

I will follow this blog without a doubt!

two things:
1) I send you a PM
2) On which tables is an open with A2s-A5s profitable in MP or EP?

Thanks

Farma

Hey verneer,

just wanted to give u props for something I learned from this thread. Early on u gave an example of ur student who wanted to resteal something like ATo vs SB steal when it would have been better to just call IP, keeping all of SB's weak range inside instead of 3betting and only make the stronger part of SB's range continue.

I identified with that student's thinking. Thought about it and I found it made a lot of sense to only flat, so I started implementing it.
This is one example where I would have made way less by 3betting than I did by flatting my stronger range.

So I thought I let u know u r really helping some of us out, making us question our "standard" decisions, thank you for that.

Keep the wisdom coming!

Daniel

Originally posted by Farmarchist
On which tables is an open with A2s-A5s profitable in MP or EP?

Passive ones where your opponents tend to pay off too lightly postflop.

Originally posted by M1rCea
Hey verneer,

just wanted to give u props for something I learned from this thread. Early on u gave an example of ur student who wanted to resteal something like ATo vs SB steal when it would have been better to just call IP, keeping all of SB's weak range inside instead of 3betting and only make the stronger part of SB's range continue.

I identified with that student's thinking. Thought about it and I found it made a lot of sense to only flat, so I started implementing it.
This is one example where I would have made way less by 3betting than I did by flatting my stronger range.

Spoiler

IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

UTG+2: $7 (35 bb)
MP1: $20 (100 bb)
MP2: $20.78 (103.9 bb)
MP3: $22.42 (112.1 bb)
CO: $11.45 (57.2 bb)
BTN: $5.67 (28.4 bb)
SB: $24.31 (121.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $20 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A J
6 folds, SB raises to $0.60, Hero calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.20) 8 K A (2 players)
SB bets $0.90, Hero calls $0.90

Turn: ($3) J (2 players)
SB bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25

River: ($7.50) A (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $16.25 and is all-in, SB calls $11.25

Results: $40 pot ($2 rake)
Final Board: 8 K A J A
SB showed A 5 and lost (-$20 net)
Hero mucked A J and won $38 ($18 net)

So I thought I let u know u r really helping some of us out, making us question our "standard" decisions, thank you for that.

Keep the wisdom coming!

Daniel

Thanks!

Katy and I drove up to Virginia this weekend to check out houses. We'll be moving there in a few months and will need a place to live. On the way up, she mentioned a study she heard about on the radio which looked at beginning and expert piano players and their perception of ability.

Beginners consistently overestimated their own ability and experts consistently underestimated their own ability. When she told me this, I thought it made sense. Most beginners focus on what they know. They don't know enough to know about all the things that they don't know about (wow ... it's complicated just to write that). Jared Tendler calls this stage unconscious incompetence.

On the other hand, many experts focus on their weaknesses (since this is the area they work on the most). This awareness of weakness (as well as models of other experts around them) has a potential humbling effect which leads to potentially underestimating your own skill.

The brilliance of NLHE and PLO is how easy it is to get a general sense of the rules and be able to start playing (along with watching others play on TV, etc). Beginners can pick up the game quickly, and due to variance, can experience success early as well. But - it's very difficult to understand why some plays are good plays and why some are bad plays. This keeps the advanced players engaged.

Everyone wins

Good luck with the house hunting ♦

today I have ripped from the wall all my starting hand charts, 3 bet charts, rol charts and post flop play charts!!!
They have been very good to teach me the basics, but I feel they are holding me back now, as I am too reliant on them and it stops me thinking about the game for myself.

Is this how I begin to unlearn?

Originally posted by roopopper
Good luck with the house hunting ♦

today I have ripped from the wall all my starting hand charts, 3 bet charts, rol charts and post flop play charts!!!
They have been very good to teach me the basics, but I feel they are holding me back now, as I am too reliant on them and it stops me thinking about the game for myself.

Is this how I begin to unlearn?
It's a good start Reduce tables as well for the transition!

Free Book!

My blog on PokerStartegy is approaching 10K views which is an important stepping stone toward my goal of ten million views.

To celebrate, I'm going to ship a copy of my book to the person who posts the worst beat that they've suffered in 2012 in this blog. I don't care about the stakes, but let's keep it to games I can understand (PLO & NLHE). I know some people like jbpatzer post hands from drawing games which just confuse me.

If you post the worst one, I'll send you a copy of my book. Here is the catch - the cover is a little offset (hardly noticable unless you are playing attention to it). Thus, your bad beat gets rewarded with another bad beat (an imperfect copy ... muahahahaha).

You also get a special inscription:

I look forward to seeing how good some of these are ♦

Did you say worst or first? ♦

I have to try, at least

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]MP2$23.28:///////;MP3$78.62:///////;CO$57.15:///////;BU$50.00:///////;SB (Hero)$42.17:///////;BB$64.69:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is SB with K:s, K:d.
4 folds, Hero raises to $2.00, BB calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4) J:s, 9:h, Q:s (2 players)
Hero bets $2.85, BB raises to $8.00, Hero raises to $40.17, BB calls $32.17.

Turn: ($84.34) A:c (2 players)

River: ($84.34) A:d (2 players)

Final Pot: $84.34.

Results follow:

Hero shows two pairs, aces and kings(K:s K:d).
BB shows a full-house, aces full of nines(A:s 9:s).

BB wins with a full-house, aces full of nines(A:s 9:s).

Here is one tha happened to me a week ago.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

BTN: $1.60
SB: $4.50
BB: $1.63
UTG: $1.52
MP: $2.65
Hero (CO): $2.00

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with J J
1 fold, MP raises to $0.04, Hero raises to $0.14, 1 fold, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.12, MP calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.56) 4 J 3 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.45, SB folds, BB folds, MP raises to $2.51 all in, Hero calls $1.41 all in

Turn: ($4.28) 6 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($4.28) 7 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $4.28
MP shows 3 5 (a straight, Three to Seven)
Hero shows J J (three of a kind, Jacks)
MP wins $4.13
(Rake: $0.15)

This river was pretty brutal...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.25(BB) Replayer
Hero ($25.25)
BB ($30.55)
UTG ($21.25)
UTG+1 ($31.15)
CO ($16.90)
BTN ($43.95)

Dealt to Hero K♣ K♠

fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.90, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.75, fold

FLOP ($2.05) 2♦ 8♦ J♦

Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2.05, Hero raises to $6, UTG+1 calls $3.95

TURN ($14.05) 2♦ 8♦ J♦ 7♣

Hero bets $8, UTG+1 raises to $24.25 (AI), Hero calls $10.35 (AI)

RIVER ($50.75) 2♦ 8♦ J♦ 7♣ Q♦

Hero shows K♣ K♠
(Pre 82%, Flop 88.6%, Turn 95.5%)

UTG+1 shows Q♠ Q♣
(Pre 18%, Flop 11.4%, Turn 4.5%)

UTG+1 wins $48.25

Prima, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

BTN: $20 (100 bb)
SB: $17.74 (88.7 bb)
BB: $29.13 (145.6 bb)
Hero (CO): $20.20 (101 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A A
Hero raises to $0.70, BTN folds, SB calls $0.60, BB folds

Flop: ($1.60) K T A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.20, SB raises to $5.20, Hero raises to $9.20, SB raises to $17.04, Hero calls $7.84

Turn: ($35.68) T (2 players)
River: ($35.68) Q (2 players)

Results: $35.68 pot ($1.78 rake)

SB showed T T and won $33.90 ($16.16 net)
Hero mucked A A and lost (-$17.74 net)

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$11.71:///////;MP2 (Hero)$10.00:///////;MP3$16.44:///////;CO$5.78:///////;BU$10.00:///////;SB$10.13:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T:d, T:s.
Hero raises to $0.30, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.30, BU calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20.

Flop: ($1.5) T:h, T:c, K:h (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.30, BU folds, SB calls $0.30, BB calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30.

Turn: ($2.7) Q:h (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $2.20, Hero calls $2.20, CO raises to $5.18, SB folds, BB calls $2.98, Hero calls $2.98.

River: ($18.24) 5:s (2 players)
BB bets $5.93(All-In), Hero calls $4.22.

Final Pot: $28.39.
Results follow:

Hero shows four of a kind, tens(T:d T:s).
BB shows a straight flush, king high(9:h J:h).
CO shows a flush, ace high(A:h 6:h).

BB wins with a straight flush, king high(9:h J:h).

I haven't played a lot during 2012 itself, as I'm currently on a sort of break from poker while sorting personal stuff and mindset issues caused by a combination of personal stuff and bad run..

So therefore I'm not 100% sure this hand was played during 2012, but I'll throw it in with a "Disqualify as needed", but beaten bad I was!

$0.05/$0.1 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$12.77:///////;MP2$10.45:///////;MP3$11.67:///////;CO$10.15:///////;BU (Hero)$10.00:///////;SB$19.42:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BU with 6:d, 6:h.
MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $0.30, CO folds, Hero calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB folds.

Flop: ($1) 6:c, 8:c, 6:s (3 players)
SB checks, MP3 bets $0.47, Hero calls $0.47, SB folds.

Turn: ($1.94) 4:h (2 players)
MP3 bets $1.29, Hero calls $1.29.

River: ($4.52) 8:d (2 players)
MP3 bets $3.01, Hero raises to $7.94, MP3 calls $4.93.

Final Pot: $20.4.
Results follow:

MP3 shows four of a kind, eights(8:h 8:s).
Hero shows four of a kind, sixes(6:d 6:h).

MP3 wins with four of a kind, eights(8:h 8:s).

I can also add in a Live Hand bad beat from the third of December 2011, during Unibet Riga Open.

Blinds are 3000/6000-500, I'm sitting around 95k(roughly 15-16bb), the board reads 45/308 remaining, 39 paid.

Wake up in the CO with K:s K:h, clearly feeling this is where I make it a lot deeper!

MP1 opens for something like 40k, just under I think, and I believe he's been opening fairly wide the last few orbits but not playing too recklessly, trying to abuse peoples tendency to tighten up to survive as we near the bubble.

I push, possibly a bit too quickly, more than doubling his bet, knowing full well I'm far ahead of the range, I'd put him on a conservative TT-QQ,AA,AK-AJ, against I think I'm something like a 68-69% favourite?

He turns over A:d Q:s and I'm feeling pretty ok about it.

Board runs out A:s 2:s 3:c Q:c J:d, not only letting him spike the ace, but the Queen a swell, just to spite me.

Left after the hand with 2500 chips, less than one small blind, and busting the tournament 41st, so atleast I wasn't the bubbleboy, right? (That occured on the hand after on a different table :P)

(Oh, and also, loving the blog, avid reader!)
Regards,
Richard

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit 5 Card Draw - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥ 7♥
UTG folds, MP folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, CO calls

First Draw: (7.5 SB) (2 players)
CO draws 3, Hero draws 1
Hand: J♣ 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥
CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps!, CO calls

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
CO shows K♠ K♣ K♥ K♦ T♦ (four of a kind, Kings)
Hero shows J♣ 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥ (four of a kind, Eights)
CO wins 11.25 BB
(Rake: $0.50)

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Rules are like a red rag to a bull for me. ♦

Poker Stars $2.00+$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 6 players - View hand 1658358
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): t3100 62 BBs
SB: t2825 56.50 BBs
BB: t2865 57.30 BBs
UTG: t3630 72.60 BBs
MP: t3465 69.30 BBs
CO: t1270 25.40 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN with J J
UTG calls t50, 1 fold, CO raises to t200, Hero raises to t600, 3 folds, CO calls t400

Flop: (t1325) 9 J 3 (2 players)
CO bets t670 all in, Hero calls t670

Turn: (t2665) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t2665) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t2665
Hero shows J J (a full house, Jacks full of Fours)
CO shows 4 4 (four of a kind, Fours)
CO wins t2665

tho it might not be from this year

2012 May very well be the end of the (poker) world for me, happened to me ~2weeks ago
I will paste my first ever brutal bad beat (also posted in my blog), vs Le Fish
P.S. my overpot bet on river with the apparent nutz is where things get heavy

Party, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

BTN: $26.75 (107 bb)
SB: $24.75 (99 bb)
CO: $20.95 (83.8 bb)
BB: $13.01 (52 bb)
Hero (MP): $54.87 (219.5 bb)
UTG: $25.03 (100.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q Q
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, SB calls $0.90, BB folds

Flop: ($2.25) 3 6 J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.25) 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.25) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15
, SB raises to $22.25 and is all-in

, Hero calls $7.25

Results: $49.75 pot ($2.48 rake)

Enjoying everyone's contributions,
Daniel

Originally posted by jbpatzer
Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 Limit 5 Card Draw - 6 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Pre Draw: (1.5 SB) Hero is BTN with 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥ 7♥
UTG folds, MP folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, CO calls

First Draw: (7.5 SB) (2 players)
CO draws 3, Hero draws 1
Hand: J♣ 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥
CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero caps!, CO calls

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
CO shows K♠ K♣ K♥ K♦ T♦ (four of a kind, Kings)
Hero shows J♣ 8♣ 8♠ 8♦ 8♥ (four of a kind, Eights)
CO wins 11.25 BB
(Rake: $0.50)

Sorry. Couldn't resist. Rules are like a red rag to a bull for me. ♦

I really wish you drew first. Then I could say "you did this to yourself - should have just help pat". nice beat

The rest that I'm seeing are pretty awesome as well. Makes me feel better about losing my 60/40's vs. 50 BB stackers in Omaha Keep them coming!

Originally posted by verneer

Originally posted by rogervieri
few things I noticed:
1) between UTG & MP: you just added 22-44 & AJo...being oop most of the time, is it not to wide?
2) A2s-A9s & A2o-A9o are not mentioned...prob of domination? or because postflop, it's harder to play because of the weak kicker?
3) I wonder what your motives are from CO & BTN ♦

1. At most tables, it should be fine.
2. I wouldn't mess with weak unsuited aces from early positions - they're bad news for all sorts of reasons. At some tables I might open the suited ones early, but I would have to have a really good read on the table. You're basically hoping to flop a flush draw or they will get you in trouble. They will be tough to play out of position in multi-way pots (which often happens when you play a hand from EP & MP).
3. You mean my ranges from CO & BTN? Only one way to find out for sure ♦

Hi Pawel,
3) to continue on this point: I live in the Netherlands...how can I obtain a copy of your book?? Only via Amazon.com?? In the Netherlands www.bol.com is the biggest online provide, perhaps a deal with them would open up the dutch-market ♦

Originally posted by rogervieri
Hi Pawel,
3) to continue on this point: I live in the Netherlands...how can I obtain a copy of your book?? Only via Amazon.com?? In the Netherlands www.bol.com is the biggest online provide, perhaps a deal with them would open up the dutch-market ♦

How much do they charge for shipping?