[Closed] 0,5/1 SH KJo

3-bet flop for value + protection against this extremely drawy board, bet turn then bet/call river for a thin valuebet against someone capable of such pure bluffing as the other hand.

If raised on the turn then calldown

i like the call flop/raise turn to let draws pay the maximum. i agree with the thin value bet. maybe he had a flushdraw and paired up with the 9 or the T or something similar.

I disagree maybe if itwas J72 two suited (maybe this is too drawy too!) or J84 rainbow but this board is too drawy 3-bet imo for sure you have to make him "pay the maximum" before he gets another card!

Another opinion?

(sorry for disagreeing oh mighty hand judge ♦)

if i was allmighty i would have a bigger hand and a "professional" in front of my "judge" ^^
it is a draw heavy board but it´s still heads up... so i wouldn´t assume the worst.
i mean: we made a stealraise from the CO and he defended his BB... he could check/raise any 4, any 8, any worse J (i think he would have 3-bet AJ preflop), any draw (even weak ones like gutshots), many pockets or even some bluffs like A high

Originally posted by TerrorBlade
3-bet flop for value + protection against this extremely drawy board, bet turn then bet/call river for a thin valuebet against someone capable of such pure bluffing as the other hand.

If raised on the turn then calldown

3-bet flop IP ?? Never.

Originally posted by Lizardy
3-bet flop IP ?? Never.

can´t say it like that. every situation is different

Originally posted by Lizardy

Originally posted by TerrorBlade
3-bet flop for value + protection against this extremely drawy board, bet turn then bet/call river for a thin valuebet against someone capable of such pure bluffing as the other hand.

If raised on the turn then calldown

3-bet flop IP ?? Never.

Lol so if the flop was JT9 all of clubs you would wait till the turn?

To me it just feels wrong to wait till the turn here as there are many cards that we dont want to see (like the 9) and imo playing fast in this case would be better. I wana see what cirith says how do we get him here?

Never say never?

Well of course it's possible to raise the flop and to be honest I don't see any big diference between a 3-bet or a call here. The later has the advantage that you can wait for the turn and if a bad card comes you often save 1 SB. On the other hand you might be scared for no reason and lose 1 SB.

I don't rememeber the article about this anymore completly but I think the more cards would be bad for us the more we should wait for the turncard to raise. (Your example is such a situation.)
This changes if we have a stronger or weaker hand and depends on our opponent too. It can become very complex. :/

You haven't got the equity to bet/call the river.

If you don't like the idea of bet/folding to this opponent then you're going to have to risk him checking behind and just go for the check/call.

I can't see him having a straight here, but I can see plenty of two pair hands.

Originally posted by ciRith
Never say never?

Well of course it's possible to raise the flop and to be honest I don't see any big diference between a 3-bet or a call here. The later has the advantage that you can wait for the turn and if a bad card comes you often save 1 SB. On the other hand you might be scared for no reason and lose 1 SB.

I don't rememeber the article about this anymore completly but I think the more cards would be bad for us the more we should wait for the turncard to raise. (Your example is such a situation.)
This changes if we have a stronger or weaker hand and depends on our opponent too. It can become very complex. :/

Why should we wait if there are more BAD cards? This doesn't make sense to me.
Imo theres a 99% chance we're ahead on the flop so we should raise as much as possible while we're ahead.

Are you talking about the delay theory article?

If there are a lot cards which could be bad for us (cards that lower our equity) then it's worth to give up some equity on the flop to gain or spare money on the turn.

It's just that you get more value if you wait for the turn. This is basicly the same princip as call flop, raise turn (if he would have donked into us) with the addtionall benefit that we can spare the raise if a bad card comes.

It's not the delay theory and I don't remember the article anymore nor can I find it. :/

Oh ok, that article sounds helpful, if there is a german one of it it'll be translated at some point?

That article sounds similar to the "Two overpair hands" section in SSHE.

I think it was one of our weekly content hands. Maybe I can translate it in the near future. It was more about multiway play but I think it's useful for HU as well.