great post 
keep them coming!
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Saw a question on another forum, where one player was asking for advice on how to fix his red line. The answer was so simple: "Don't bother with your red line, work on your green line!" 
Really nice post!
wow great post, but as you said it really doesnt matter if your red line goes up or down, what matters is if you're a winner. The more i read about nonshowdown line the more i start to think that its more about players ego and bragging but not about profit
but thanks anyway, nice read
Originally posted by jurish123
The more i read about nonshowdown line the more i start to think that its more about players ego and bragging but not about profit
I'm sure that there is some ego involved in some cases.
overall, though, if the redline is going down consistently, and the blue line is going up consistently, where is the green line -- which is the only one to care about.
Where the lines go (in general) can tell you at a glance if you've been too passive, too nitty, too aggressive and so on.
The one to watch out for is when your red line is going up, and your blue line is going down.
If your green line is healthy in either case, that is all that really matters.
I think the main point is don't focus on what your stats are doing.
"One hand at a time" is how winrates are built
brilliant post should be made into a strategy artical many players could benifit from reading this thread
you get my 10 star vote anyway
Great post w34z3l.
I keep seeing people posting about how "bad" their red line are. This explains perfectly why they shouldnt focus in those lines but only on the green line.
I would like to ask you if i can translate this to the pt/br community with your credits
nice post
Of course it's true that the green line is the only one that matters, but if you do have a steep downward-sloping red line, there is a good chance that you are simply not running enough good bluffs (i.e. not only raising but also following through appropriately), so that is something that you could think about starting to incorporate more into your game. If, on the other hand, you have a steep downward-sloping blue line (like me 
), there's a good chance you are bluffing too often in bad spots, like OP mentioned, or making too many bad river calls. Making good folds on the river is another thing that will make your red line drop but is obviously good for EV.
Originally posted by Lunitis
I would like to ask you if i can translate this to the pt/br community with your credits
Yes, translate and post anywhere, just give me a brief mention.
To some extent, who you play against affects your red/blue balance too.
If you play against people who go to showdown a lot, then naturally your winnings go to your blue line.
I try to play so that nothing external to the hand affects my decision.
Line colour is defo external to the hand.
I think the part about valuebetting too thinly isnt a general problem on the river, the problem here is flop and turn. On the river this is implied but on previous streets it might not be that obvious - you need to show it down!
Let me give you an example.
We raise from the CO with K9s the BTN 22/18 regs calls, every one else folds.
Flop comes K44r. Do you cbet here ? I mean what is going to call you on the river ? Well pretty much nothing you can beat. Sure you can bet the Flop and XC the turn, are you XC the river ? There isnt really that much that feels the need to bluff the turn.
The Eq difference between AK and K9 are not big on the flop vs Villians entire range(without assigning a specific range and checking Equilab around 75-80% would be my guess). But with your bets you are narrowing that range to a point where the EQ difference between AK and K9 will be huge. (Since the most likely hands in his range are all the Kx with the kickers in between).
So it might be worth considering checking the flop with K9, allways calling at least 2. This will also protect your JJ and TT with which you are only going to XC 1 most likely.
If you are losing money without SD it might be due to your cbets contain to many madehands which you will be forced to fold later on. And since a madehands value comes from showing it down, valuebetting thinly on early streets is essentially bluffing with a 2-5 out draw.
Edit: Also, bets with weak madehands are extremly fragile (b/f) and will therefore lose even more money vs worse hands.
Yeah, I agree with what you are saying.
K9 on the K44.
Will you get called by worse if you bet? It's completely plausible.
Does that mean you should value bet flop? Not necessarily.
You should already be thinking about how many streets of value you realistically expect to get with this hand and how the river might play out depending on whether you check or bet.
Whether a river value bet is too thin will undoubtedly depend on whether it is the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd bet to go in because it will affect villain's calling range - so as you say, mistakes can start on the flop.
What a good and simple article.
I find myself doing stuff so my graphs looks more sexy by doing less EV lines way to often
Thanks for the reminder:)
Hello w34z3l, I translated your post to the Spanish forum, I hope you don't mind, I did an exact copy of it and added the URL of this original one.
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/es/forum/thread.php?postid=2131133#post2131133
Great post, this definitely made me feel better about my losing red line Joking aside really good post!
Originally posted by ikki37
Hello w34z3l, I translated your post to the Spanish forum, I hope you don't mind, I did an exact copy of it and added the URL of this original one.https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/es/forum/thread.php?postid=2131133#post2131133
No problem. And thanks for taking the time to translate.
INteressant, definitiv.
Machte mir da auch eben den ein oder anderen Gedanken drüber, da ich kaum showdown winnings nach 20k Händen habe, aber dank den non show-downs doch noch ganz gut im positiven Bereich bin.
Bestimmt wurde hier un d, value verschenkt, durch den hyper aggro style, aber auf der anderen Seite scheint der non.showdown graf relativ konstant zu sein, im Gegensatz zu der blauen line, die in diesem Sample recht Sinus-kurvig verlaufen ist..
wüsste jetzt nicht wie und ob ich meinen style jetzt großartig ändern könnte, aber würde schon gerne das all together noch ein wenig pushen.
eure Meinung dazu würde mich interessieren.
Hi h0rstpg,
Maybe you could re-write your post in English? We're in the English community here so not everyone can understand German
Thanks!
Regards,
Tino
@horstPG
Nice graph. Weird graph, but nice graph. ♦ I'm German as well, can I add you in Skype?
Great post. I think people look too little into small pots, as w34z3l mentioned. If you just find 2 addiotional spots to steal every 100 hands, that could make the difference between being a break even or winning player.
I think if people review hands, it's better trying to make assumptions, how often would that situation appear in about 100 hands, and how many blinds you lose every time. If you compare the leak to your win rate, it's way more motivating to fix it.