[SEMINAR TODAY!!] Oblioo - Constructing Flop Ranges

Originally posted by katewalker1
Great coaching, for me one of the best ever.

thanks

Originally posted by katewalker1
I've taken the first hand in my database:
UTG is a 21/15, opens from UTG (RFI from UTG=20%). There is a superfish on the bb, so I think I can flat more hands than the normal. My call-range can be a sort of this :

what do you think about?
Here comes the flop:

FLOP: Ts 6h 4h

Now, he cbets 2/3 pot. He folds 50% to raise cbet, and he cbets 78%, with only 27% on the turn (not so many hands, 700). I think I can have a good raising range:
value: 44,66,TT = 9 combos
bluffs: 87, 98, JT, QJ without FD, [12], AJ without backdoor FD [2], some A2s-A5s.

Is that right? Another hands I could add on the bluff range?

Another question. If villain doesn't fold to cbet-raise (assuming fold to cbet raise = 35-40%) I should eliminate the bluff range, or reduce the ratio bluffs: value from 2:1 to 1:2. Do you agree?
And what hands can I add for value? Th 9h, Jh Th, Ah Th, JJ? Should I do it?

Sorry for all these questions, I want to understand if I'm not too wrong

First of all, if there is a whale in the BB and UTG is opening 20%, I would be flatting quite a few more hands than that--I would add all suited aces, suited broadways, AJo, and a few more suited gappers/connectors (T8s+, 76s, etc.).

When you are talking about the flop, I am assuming the BB folded pre-flop and you are heads-up with UTG? At first glance, the raising range you have constructed seems decent. Even when someone is folding more like 40% to flop raises, you can still probably have about a 2:1 bluff:value ratio. When someone is folding over 50% you can add even more bluffs, so in this spot I would probably add some more hands including J9ss, Axss, maybe AhJx, etc.

You usually shouldn't be adding top pair weak kicker hands to your value raising range in single-raised pots without a specific dynamic. The less often someone folds to raises, the more aggressive you will have to be on later streets with your air, because they will be getting to turns and rivers with a wider range that may include 2nd or 3rd pair, etc. You still don't need to stray too far from the 2:1 bluffs:value ratio; I would only want more value than bluffs if someone was almost never folding, or against someone who always check/folds the turn after cbetting the flop (in which case we can float with all the hands we would bluff-raise with).

I hope that answers all your questions?

responses in bold

Originally posted by serverm07
Hey Oblio,

Very good video as expected, but I have few comments and some questions.

Obviously like you said this was just a video on how to come up with ranges but little bit of nit-picking from me, on the T23 monotone board if we have A2 and A3 in our range it's much better to have those in our range than the AQo/AJo imo cus they have more equity. I don't remember the other boards but I typically pick bottom pair as part of my bluff range often. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Yes this seems fine

Now onto the questions:
So first of all, I think the preflop range is fairly solid, obv we flat some A2s-A5s when bbs are not aggro, fish in the blinds same for 22-44, some other weaker hands but I think overall is quite good.

How wide of a CO range are you using this range vs roughly? assuming bbs are not super aggro or super fishy just "normal" regs.

I chose this range assuming we are facing ~25% CO open range.

So this T23 rainbow board is actually quite the perfect example:
Obv pocket pairs are quite high variance but a lot of guys with large samples have 22-33 (losing a decent amount) 44 (losing but closer to b/e) 55 (where we get into profit territory)

Watching Sauce's video he said he doesn't flat small pps btn vs co, which I agree with and I rather be exploitable on this board in a sense that I can't raise as much on boards that contain 2-4 but will prob be making more.

I guess the question is do you think regs perceive you to have 22-55 in your button flatting range?

Any comments about the whole flatting or not flatting 22-44 are welcome.

I agree that it's not great to be flatting 22-33 BTN vs. CO, so if you are playing vs. someone quite good who knows that you don't flat 22-33, then you are right, you can't have much of a raising range. However, I do think a lot of regs perceive flatting 22-44 as "standard" BTN vs. CO, so they will often be in your perceived range, which means that you can have an exploitative raising range on this kind of board, meaning way more bluffs than value hands.

Also back to monotone boards, do you think people are really cbetting quite that wide on them? Idk if I'm just playing bunch of weak pus regs but I honestly don't see that many regs going quite crazy on them.

It depends on the board. On drier monotone boards (when there aren't a lot of straight draws possible), yes I think many regs cbet them quite wide. Maybe where you play they don't, I'm not sure?

cheers

Originally posted by Majestaet
Is there a differnce between single-raised pots and 3bet-Pots? Or still two bluffs for one value-Raise?

Specific situation:

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.25/$0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (4 handed)

Known players:
[tg]SB$60.25:///////;BB$82.61:///////;CO$57.84:///////;BU (Hero)$50.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BU with XX
CO folds, Hero raises to $1.25, SB raises to $3.00, BB folds, Hero calls $1.75.

Flop: ($6.5) Q:c, J:d, 7:s (2 players)
SB bets $3.23, Hero ???.

What should be my value-raising-Range and what my bluffraising-Range?

This is a good question and I'm glad you brought it up, and also sorry I didn't mention this at all in the seminar. The 2:1 thing is primarily for single-raised pots. In 3bet pots, you generally cannot have as many bluffs, because there is less money behind to use for aggression and implied odds, so I would maybe shoot for ~1:1 range in 3bet pots, 100bb deep.

Value range on that board could maybe be 77, JJ, and sometimes AQ (~16 combos total), and you can probably come up with that many bluff combos yourself using the concepts we talked about in the seminar.

Originally posted by Gonchan
Hello,

I'm consuming this seminar(I'm japanese and not good at English ♠_mad:)
and now I have a question.

What define made hand? for example, when board was Th9d3d, Isn't it value raise with QdJd?

Is there any reason not including QdJd?

QdJd is generally going to have less than 50% equity vs. a getting it in range, which means we don't really want to get 3bet, which means I probably don't really want to raise it for value.

I cant open the video. When I click on it, nothing happens, when I click the link below, I just get to see other ps.de videos, can't find this one there. Am I doin it wrong?

edit: or hasn't this been released as a video? would appreciate it very much!

Originally posted by katewalker1

Here comes the flop:

FLOP: Ts 6h 4h

Now, he cbets 2/3 pot. He folds 50% to raise cbet, and he cbets 78%, with only 27% on the turn (not so many hands, 700). I think I can have a good raising range:
value: 44,66,TT = 9 combos
bluffs: 87, 98, JT, QJ without FD, [12], AJ without backdoor FD [2], some A2s-A5s.

Is that right? Another hands I could add on the bluff range?

Another question. If villain doesn't fold to cbet-raise (assuming fold to cbet raise = 35-40%) I should eliminate the bluff range, or reduce the ratio bluffs: value from 2:1 to 1:2. Do you agree?
And what hands can I add for value? Th 9h, Jh Th, Ah Th, JJ? Should I do it?

Sorry for all these questions, I want to understand if I'm not too wrong

First of all, if there is a whale in the BB and UTG is opening 20%, I would be flatting quite a few more hands than that--I would add all suited aces, suited broadways, AJo, and a few more suited gappers/connectors (T8s+, 76s, etc.).

When you are talking about the flop, I am assuming the BB folded pre-flop and you are heads-up with UTG? At first glance, the raising range you have constructed seems decent. Even when someone is folding more like 40% to flop raises, you can still probably have about a 2:1 bluff:value ratio. When someone is folding over 50% you can add even more bluffs, so in this spot I would probably add some more hands including J9ss, Axss, maybe AhJx, etc.

You usually shouldn't be adding top pair weak kicker hands to your value raising range in single-raised pots without a specific dynamic. The less often someone folds to raises, the more aggressive you will have to be on later streets with your air, because they will be getting to turns and rivers with a wider range that may include 2nd or 3rd pair, etc. You still don't need to stray too far from the 2:1 bluffs:value ratio; I would only want more value than bluffs if someone was almost never folding, or against someone who always check/folds the turn after cbetting the flop (in which case we can float with all the hands we would bluff-raise with).

I hope that answers all your questions?

Yes I was assuming BB folding and an hu flop.
Thank you, all is clear, the only thing is the second statement in bold, I didn't want to raise/shove TPWK, but TP with FD; do you think they could be good hands to shove against opponent who doesn't fold too much vs cbet raises?