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AKs UTG vs 3-bet, FD on flop

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Lathdari
Joined: 07.10.2014

Standard OR. I wondered whether I ought to 4-bet here, but the villain has tightish 3B and vs UTG I expect a range like {QQ+, AK}, against which I have 42% equity vs 30% required to call. If I 4-bet I get perhaps 12 out of 21 combos to fold (QQ and AKo) so I have 57% chance of winning $1.65 immediately and a 43% of ending up all in a pot with 32% equity. So my expected return is -$0.43.

It seems to me that if villain doesn't fold to a 4-bet, he would always shove (i.e. he has no 4-bet calling range), and I'm bound to call a shove, so I may as well 4-bet shove myself to maximise my FE if I'm going to do it, but it still seems that I'll lose money. For instance if villain only calls with {KK+} then I have 71% chance of folding him (for $1.65) but only 23% equity when he calls, for an expected return of -$0.28.

So anyway, as played I hit a FD. I could also have top set, so betting seems good. Villain calls, which I guess shows an OP. I still have a FD and can still rep top set, so I bet again OTT, which again is called. OTR, I have a busted flush, but I could still rep a FH?? (there are $4.97 remaining in the effective stack)

Poker Stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players

BB: $10.00 - VPIP: 11, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AF: 5.0, Hands: 296
Hero (UTG): $21.12 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 14, 3B: 7, AF: 2.8, Hands: 12491
UTG+1: $10.00 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 10, 3B: 2, AF: 2.5, Hands: 109
MP1: $10.18 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 1.3, Hands: 205
MP2: $10.46 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 2.3, Hands: 94
CO: $10.10 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 11, 3B: 5, AF: 2.8, Hands: 226
BTN: $10.00 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 14, 3B: 7, AF: 4.5, Hands: 172
SB: $10.20 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 13, 3B: 6, AF: 1.7, Hands: 136

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with K :heart: A :heart:
Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, CO raises to $1.10, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.35) 8 :diamond: J :heart: 7 :heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.49, CO calls $1.49

Turn: ($5.33) 3 :diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $2.54, CO calls $2.54

River: ($10.41) 3 :club: (2 players)
Hero ???


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15 replies
Lathdari
Joined: 07.10.2014

Part of my problem here is that I feel the flop and turn bets should both be bigger, but then we'd run out of chips and I wouldn't be able to get paid if I complete. What if I were to bet $2 OTF and then shove any turn?


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

X/r the flop or lead bigger and shove the turn imo.


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Lathdari
Joined: 07.10.2014

When I x/r I'm raising all-in right? What I don't want to do is allow him to make the shove.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by Lathdari
What I don't want to do is allow him to make the shove.

Why not? Might as well let him bluff if he has it in him. Besides, you have ~52% equity against QQ and are only a 3:2 dog against AA.


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randomdonk
Joined: 02.08.2009

even if his range is QQ+, AK, calling pre is pretty bad. and his range is probably more like KK+.

apart from that, don't try to make people fold by forcing them to put u on top set (i.e. 3 combos) or u are going to burn away a lot of money.
especially when:
- it's on nl10, who folds an overpair in a 3b pot ever?
- against a nit who's range is the top 1% of all hands
- and u want to bluff shove for half pot (he has to win 25% of the time to break even) when every possible draw busts.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Originally posted by Lathdari
When I x/r I'm raising all-in right? What I don't want to do is allow him to make the shove.

If I x/r, I would make it 2.5-3 times his bet. If he shoves you would have easy call given the pot odds


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Lathdari
Joined: 07.10.2014

I know that I have an easy call if he shoves, that's why I want to arrange the betting so that I'm the one to shove, because we end up in the same place but I lose FE if the villain shoves. I now believe that x/shove OTF is the correct line.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by randomdonk
- it's on nl10, who folds an overpair in a 3b pot ever?

This is true and worth OP bearing in mind, but in this specific instance we don't really want him to fold an overpair on the flop. We're flipping with a range of QQ+.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Originally posted by Lathdari
I know that I have an easy call if he shoves, that's why I want to arrange the betting so that I'm the one to shove, because we end up in the same place but I lose FE if the villain shoves. I now believe that x/shove OTF is the correct line.

Sometimes you will be also bluffing in similar spots and you don't want to x/shove your bluffs.


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Castle93
Joined: 06.06.2011

You're best option is to x/r the flop.

The 2 main reasons of this are:
1) Your equity if you don't hit reduces dramatically OTT, trying to get your stack in with your flop equity while also having FE makes it +1
2) He could check behind with AK (probably doesn't 3bet AQ) and give you a free card.

I don't like leading the flop and shove the turn because he's never folding an OP here. You're only really folding out AK here.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by Castle93
You're best option is to x/r the flop.

The 2 main reasons of this are:
1) Your equity if you don't hit reduces dramatically OTT, trying to get your stack in with your flop equity while also having FE makes it +1
2) He could check behind with AK (probably doesn't 3bet AQ) and give you a free card.

I don't like leading the flop and shove the turn because he's never folding an OP here. You're only really folding out AK here.

If you donk your nuts as well, then a donk-semibluff is okay. It is not shown conclusively (to my knowledge) that the check-raise is the best play. It depends on the opponent and your image. With a set, you might be greeted with a raise from an overpair if you donk. I'd go for the check-raise myself, at least 100BB deep.


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zoty79
Joined: 31.03.2010

The thing is, if you check on the flop, he might check behind. That is a good outcome for you, because you can realize your equity in this way. However what are you going to call in this spot, if villain bets?


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kidzoltan
Joined: 05.08.2010

It's better to pot commit yourself with a XR on the flop. If he checks back I would bet the turn. Donking here doesn't look like top set imo.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by kidzoltan
... Donking here doesn't look like top set imo.

Which is exactly why it may be a good play to do just that:D

But donking draws and check-raising nuts is a bad proposition in the long run.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I like xr better, but that is my personal choice.
We are not afraid of a shove as we can easily call.


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