In poker, you do not need above average luck to win.
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Originally posted by vhallee
thanks for your patience and sorry i did not have time to reply sooner.
I really appreciate that you took your time. Some things are clearer now but there are still couple of things I don't agree with.
I completely agree with this
there are more factors that have a more powerful impact on the game than luck itself
but still treat poker as gambling.
Wikipedia: Gambling
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
I think that's the common definition of gambling and the only thing that should be argued is that poker is predominantly a game of skill (and not that it's not gambling).
There I meant that a player can exploit poker through the 'luck factor' and think he will have an edge on others but he is wrong because he will only lose in the long run
unless he is getting the right odds 
(just being nitty)
Perfectly clear now, good point.
We all know that two aces beat two deuces, right?
Wrong. Pair of aces beat pair of deuces only on last street. If there are still cards to come deuces can suck out on aces. Not knowing which card will come on next street has nothing to do with poker being a game of incomplete information.
Let's get into philosophy ♦
Originally posted by Kruppe
In poker, you do not need above average luck to win.
In fact you don't need luck at all.
What is luck in first place?
I'd say there's no such think as luck in poker (or roulette). This might also apply to life in general.
I guess it's time to get some sleep before I say something even more stupid, like:
There's no luck. It's all gambling.
Originally posted by Kruppe
In poker, you do not need above average luck to win.In fact you don't need luck at all.
What is luck in first place?
I'd say there's no such think as luck in poker (or roulette). This might also apply to life in general.
No, you misunderstood me. Let me explain. With the term 'luck', you mean what I use the term 'above average luck' for.
By 'above average luck' I mean that on average, the outcomes of situations that you have no control over have been more beneficial to you than the statistically most probable outcomes would be.
Luck constantly plays a role not only in poker, but in everyday life. What doesn't exist is a person who is intrinsically lucky, i.e. beneficial outcomes of a situation are more likely for him than for other people.
We all know that two aces beat two deuces, right?
Wrong. Pair of aces beat pair of deuces only on last street. If there are still cards to come deuces can suck out on aces. Not knowing which card will come on next street has nothing to do with poker being a game of incomplete information.
Let's get into philosophy ♦
In fact you don't need luck at all.
What is luck in first place?
I'd say there's no such think as luck in poker (or roulette). This might also apply to life in general.I guess it's time to get some sleep before I say something even more stupid, like:
There's no luck. It's all gambling.
heh that's what i meant - on the river, when everything is done and nobody improved their pairs. Of course you can beat pocket kings with 27o if you play mind games but I didn't go there. I basically expressed that the aces have a higher value than deuces 
As for your conceptions about luck... no comment 
But let me say that I definitely enjoyed your feedback and thanks for pointing out my unclear or even wrong statements ^^
Originally posted by Kruppe
Luck constantly plays a role not only in poker, but in everyday life.
And that's the problem. I guess that's in human nature but why bother with the outcome of situations you have no control over? The only thing you can do is to do everything you can to maximize chances of getting lucky. It's efforts that count. But people are results oriented, concerned only with immediate outcome, and than blame it on 'luck' or 'destiny' or call it whatever you like.
Once again I'll quote definition of gambling from wiki, only this time slightly modified:
Gambling is the wagering of money, something of material value or efforts on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods or even something immaterial ('mental goods' i.e. 'luck'). Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
I hope it's clearer now what I tried to say with There's no luck. It's all gambling. I'm upgrading this to:
If it's your destiny to realize that everything is gambling and that luck and destiny doesn't exist then you'll become the luckiest person in world.
@vhallee: Glad we agree on everything now.
Originally posted by louc
Originally posted by Kruppe
Luck constantly plays a role not only in poker, but in everyday life.And that's the problem. I guess that's in human nature but why bother with the outcome of situations you have no control over? The only thing you can do is to do everything you can to maximize chances of getting lucky. It's efforts that count. But people are results oriented, concerned only with immediate outcome, and than blame it on 'luck' or 'destiny' or call it whatever you like.
Once again I'll quote definition of gambling from wiki, only this time slightly modified:Gambling is the wagering of money, something of material value or efforts on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods or even something immaterial ('mental goods' i.e. 'luck'). Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.
I hope it's clearer now what I tried to say with There's no luck. It's all gambling. I'm upgrading this to:
If it's your destiny to realize that everything is gambling and that luck and destiny doesn't exist then you'll become the luckiest person in world.
@vhallee: Glad we agree on everything now.
I aggree with the first half.
You don't have to take that definition from wiki though. I think it's incorrect. (you can use 'gambling' in that meaning if you like, but imo that's not really the meaning it has when people say stuff like 'he's gambling'.)
I think gambling is doing something where you can ONLY win if you have above average luck/have luck, whichever way you want to put it. Poker doesn't fall under this category.