Facing a river donk when the flush card hits

Yeah this is a flush quite often and I don't mind folding strong hands versus unknowns at micros in such spots.

Unless you have any reads, I think folding is the correct move. Sure, sometimes these shoves are complete bluffs, but for the most part when the villain calls you all the way to the river and then suddenly shoves, this is typically VERY strong at the micro levels.

xcall flop, xcall turn and a heavy donk when draws complete is strong on the micros.
Well sometimes villains will hit their draws, so fold and move on.

Vs unknown, yeah... just fold.
I usually have a thinking that the average guy at those limits dont have the balls to do that when they dont have a hand to support them ♠_thumbsup:

Unless you have reads, calling is the right move, at least in hand one. (It depends on your 3-bet strategy preflop in hand 2.) But population reads count for reads too, hence they aren't "unknowns", so it is up to you and your reads of the NL10 population.

YohanN7, why do u think calling is the right move in hand one? And I didnt understood this 3bet talk about hand 2.

First hand is just snapfold imo. SB doesn't have any weak hands on the river he can bluff with and turning made hands into bluff here is very hard for nl10 players. Also he doesn't get to river with Ahx hands for nut blocker.
Calling is an option only if we want to defend our range which makes top set a call if we don't raise FDs on flop.

Originally posted by Afulibador
YohanN7, why do u think calling is the right move in hand one? And I didnt understood this 3bet talk about hand 2.

He's read too much GTO stuff recently and now applies it in every post even when we're talking about playing vs fish at micros and it's not really relevant.

hahaha I saw this in one comment of him.
I found it very good, by the way... but a bit undocked to the reality of the game.

First hand I think you slow played your self in tricky spot on the river I would do that If I would know that will induce a bluff on the river if flush completes. Other option to bet larger on turn and to not care what swims by in the river

Slow played?
xxnub, kevin raised the flop and made a 2/3 bet on the turn. For me, no way this is a "slowplay".

I think you should have game plan how to play certain hand to different opponent. I this case my my plan would be asap put the money in the pot. Only if you know that your opponent will bluff on scary cards on river. Raise on flop is little bit small I would make it 1.55 (and sill get called with worst hand) and than bet turn 2.99-3.33 (size of this bet depends on your table image). Until now you prize out your opponent for FD and you do not care what river brings.

Check/call. check/call, all in, at micro stakes, no info, I would fold both those hands. Sucks to fold good hands like that, but sometimes people hit their draws.

Originally posted by xxnub
I think you should have game plan how to play certain hand to different opponent. I this case my my plan would be asap put the money in the pot. Only if you know that your opponent will bluff on scary cards on river. Raise on flop is little bit small I would make it 1.55 (and sill get called with worst hand) and than bet turn 2.99-3.33 (size of this bet depends on your table image). Until now you prize out your opponent for FD and you do not care what river brings.

Yep, interesting line of thought. U can actually charge really well some draws since its a blind war and some guys just lose the track in those spots being overly aggro or calling station. With this plan, river ll be already solved based on SPR ♠_thumbsup:

As non-winning micro player i would add the following
Both hands look like super easy folds . I have to ask though why are you 3betting so small from the BTN ? Is this your std sizing ?
On the 99 my turn bet would be something near 75-80% he has 116 bbs i want to be able to shove river without overbetting . If he had top pair the king makes it hard for him to continue anyway so i would try to charge as much as possible the draws and the other premium hands
Finaly why not 3bet 99 preflop ?

Originally posted by Afulibador
YohanN7, why do u think calling is the right move in hand one? And I didnt understood this 3bet talk about hand 2.

In these situations I try to let my cards "randomize" when I bluff catch. High up in range = call, low in range = fold.

For the first hand, I thought that second set was high enough in my range to call (vs unknown). If we routinely fold more than about 50% here, the opponent has an automatic river donk whatever he is holding.

Second hand: Same thing, just more complicated. Suppose we never 3-bet small pairs preflop. Suppose as well our opponent knows this. It is then clear that we did not hit that board very hard, and have at most an overpair or an unlikely flush.

So that is the qualitative reasoning. Ranges should be protected from being exploited due to the appearance of the board. Quantitatively I may have gone wrong, this is true. With reads (including population reads) things change.

YohanN7, thanks for ur answer ♠_thumbsup:

This is the first time I see this type of "randomize" calls concept. Interesting... since when we figure out we are more often behind, if we have an overpair or a set doesnt change much. But, if we still want to call w some hands in those situations, the high up in range seems to be a nice alternative (I think gameflow should be considered too).

About the 3bet talk, good analysis.A good opponent that has info on us can exploit it w these overly aggro plays at boards that doesnt help much the range we use as 3bet, making we prone a bit for the call and bluff catch him.