Too bluff happy?

Yuck.

Let me list the things in this hand that I would take issue with -

* Choosing to take a flop out of position by calling with AQo
* Not 3betting with AQo in a 5 handed game
* calling that flop out of position
* trying to move the villain off any hand with a 1/3rd pot turn donk bet after just calling the flop (what can he fold to that?)
* Call-donking the flop and turn ever, with any combos on any board
* betting that river, where nothing worse can call and nothing better can fold (since you now hold JJKKA)

Everything you did in this hand was wrong.

Edit - I don't mean to sound harsh, but every decision you make in this hand - flatting preflop, calling the flop, donking the turn and betting the river - was bad. To be fair it is somewhat possible that you folded the villain off an Ax hand split. That is the only +EV scenario, assuming the villain isn't nitty enough to fold Jx here.

I understand, enough for me to stop doing it thanks !

I do not mind calling preflop, but postflop I agree that it is not my game.
Try too look from the side and see what story are you telling...

I disagree that flatting is bad.

Postflop, having no further reads, and assuming Villain plays a standard range from UTG I would just fold the flop. I need some equity to call, like a BDFD at least. Further, there are many hands in our range we are defending this flop with. Thus, we can easily fold AQo without a here.

I would say 3betting AQ here is basically mandatory in order to obtain future value from our 3bet range.

If we are only 3betting a traditional 2.52% range (AK+, QQ+) in a SH game it allows players to make too many exploitative folds when we have the biscuits.

I have other hands for 3b bluff and AQ is in my calling range.
I do not like turning this hand into a bluff.

Originally posted by StVatle
...
I am doing this sometimes, and find it working. But is it a smart play? What is good and what is bad about the play?

There is nothing wrong with the line. It is terrible when people take that line against you. But chose your spots and chose the right limit for it. (The right spot is not this board vs UTG and the right limit isn't NL5.)

Originally posted by nitrol
I have other hands for 3b bluff and AQ is in my calling range.
I do not like turning this hand into a bluff.

Nit? 3bet AQ is for value, worse can call, and many hands can fold a lot of flop equity.

4bet AQ is turning it into a bluff.

Will you fold your AQ vs a 4 bet here?

Originally posted by nitrol
Will you fold your AQ vs a 4 bet here?

Just because you fold to a 4-bet doesn't mean that 3-betting it is a bluff.

It is not for value either.

Originally posted by nitrol
It is not for value either.

If it isn't a bluff it is for value.

If Player A opens with 22+, ATs+, AJo+ and all suited broadways and calls a 3bet with 88+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs but 4bets with QQ+, AK, then 3betting AQ with the intention of folding to a 4bet is obviously a +EV raise for value.

Why play this hand in big pot oop vs tighter range when we can just flat pre?

For me this hand is a call pre. If we want to 3bet AQ and AK for value and add decent amount of bluffs wouldn't we end up having too wide 3bet range agaist UTG opener?

Originally posted by nitrol
Why play this hand in big pot oop vs tighter range when we can just flat pre?

Why flat pre and play this stupid hand OOP without initiative? It turns AQ into a trash hand when we miss and a dirty hand when we hit.

Value raise and take the pot down much of the time pre on with cbet and avoid having to make thin decisions OOP - simpler and certainly a more stable style. Even better, if they 4B (and are narrow 2.5% 4B) we can fold to hands that dominate us now instead of paying three streets of value to a better ace or an overpair to our flopped Q.

By calling "with such a good hand" because you "don't want to turn it into a bluff" you are almost implying you are trying to trap with AQ. Trap. With AQ.

When we call and miss, we can play AQo wisely postflop and often win it, sometimes lose the minimum. When we hit we are in a better shape vs villains range. UTG opens usually pretty tight. When we 3bet he will either 4bet or call over 50% of his range. When he 4bets what do we do? When he just calls our 3bet his range doesn't include AJ or AT anymore since he will be 4bet bluffing those hands, it is just pps (88+?), AQs+,AKo. That range crushes us. We miss the flop as often in 3bet pots as we do in single raised pots. What if we miss. Do we cbet? I doubt villain has hands in his range that he will fold easily. If we hit are we really happy to play vs that range?

AQo is a good hand but vs UTG it is only semi good hand. If we just call it pre we can avoid big loses. AQo doesn't work as a bluff because UTG will continue too often and when he continues his range really has over 50% against AQo so I wouldn't call it a value 3bet either...

Value raise and take the pot down much of the time pre on with cbet and avoid having to make thin decisions OOP

This part souds like you are bluffing with AQo? If we value 3bet we usually want to see the flop? With 3bet bluffs the point is to take the pot down as often as possible and maybe trick villain to fold postflop with our marginal holding. If you are not comfortable facing a 4bet or seeing the flop, which you will do over 50% of the time vs UTG, why 3bet it?

Originally posted by nitrol
Why play this hand in big pot oop vs tighter range when we can just flat pre?

The same reason we'd play any other hand OOP vs a tighter range when we can just flat pre.

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by nitrol
Why play this hand in big pot oop vs tighter range when we can just flat pre?

The same reason we'd play any other hand OOP vs a tighter range when we can just flat pre.

This is as non-answer as possible, or then I just don't understand it.

"Why play this hand in a big pot OOP vs tighter range when we can just flat pre?"

You could make that argument for overlimping AA in the small blind. I feel like nitrol takes the first three letters of his username too seriously quite often.