Fold JJ when 4betted?

I think flatting preflop is better, the way you played i would fold to 4bet, specially on NL2 Zoom.

Someone who shows a low vpip I would flat pre-flop as well. When he re-raised you, you kind of know that you are behind his range. Small chance he was 4-bet bluffing with tens here. As played, good fold IMO.

Vs MP this is a standard flat. As played I think it is better to fold to his 4bet. Flop ok. Turn fold.

First, you should know the reason for your 3b. I will flat here.
Then, you should have a clear plan what you will do if raised.
Turn is a fold.

Flat pre, as played fold to 4 bet.

Preflop: Raise preflop only if you 3-bet pre like a maniac in position (i.e. like me) and have projected that image. In that case you can also call the 4-bet, because his range is wider. But chances are that you aren't a preflop maniac, and should therefore just flat. Then (as played) when raised, it is probably a fold. You get roughly 10:1 to setmine if you think he is playing for stacks 100% of the times. Yes, it must be a fold right there.

Postflop (as played, flop): For the preflop 4-bet call to make any sense, you must float here. You weren't just setmining (unprofitable).

Postflop (as played, turn): Float failed -> fold.

What if turn was a T♥, what would you guys do? (As played PF and F)

You can't call based on odds and outs. He has only 40bb left. It is up to you to guess whether he has the nerve to be bluffing this far.

Originally posted by YohanN7
You can't call based on odds and outs. He has only 40bb left. It is up to you to guess whether he has the nerve to be bluffing this far.

+1. Effective stacks are. ..pffff.

In the video section you'll find a video on the subject of pocket queens and jacks. Queens & Jacks played correctly!
Secondly, you shouldn't play zoom/fast with deep stacks. Leave the group and reenter with a full stack.

Haha beautiful. You post these vids more often don't you?

I don't mind the 3bet preflop. Polarising against the general NL2 population is like trying to sweet talk a four year old out of their lunch money by encouraging them to invest it in your pyramid scheme. They can't possibly comprehend what you are talking about. Keep it simple and just offer to trade for a cheap lollypop instead.

So I think JJ can absolutely be 3bet for value in this spot. We hold a 3% range hand IP - 3 betting is going to be profitable.

The call4 is probably a bit loose though. We wanted a call to our own 3 which would cap the villain's range and let us valuestreet on overpair flops. Without a read that says the villain 4B+ with Ax it's got to be a fold. Further, the small 4B - barely double - speaks of the kind of strength that would love a call, please, thank you very much. So if you 3, its a 3 fold, even to this almost minraise. If it was an actual minraise - to 18BB - you could more easily call the 9BB for set value as your call factor would increase to about 13.33. At 11BB its just over 10.9.

The actual value you could call for set value here varies based on how often the villain will go broke with KK+ postflop, and what textures will scare the villain away, or even shut down our own action. Mathmatically if the villain autobrokes the flop, you could call at about 9.5-1. Thirteen and a third is right about the pain threshold for a call for set value in a 4bet pot for me. Some like more. Some will play with less. It should vary based on villain type.

As played by calling4 pre you basically commit yourself to calling any overpair flop, and folding to a 2nd barrel on the turn.

Had the turn been the Th... it's still quite reasonable to call or fold here. You would be paying 25% of the pot to draw out at a bit under that equity wise, vs QQ+. It all depends on if you think you'll get implieds. It could be very difficult for the villain to bet or call if you do complete a monster. I would call in that spot expecting poor villains to overplay their overpair, even on super scary boards, at least for a call to a small river bet (which is all you'd need to complete your implied requirement).

Originally posted by wimNP
Secondly, you shouldn't play zoom/fast with deep stacks. Leave the group and reenter with a full stack.

Couldn't disagree more, as long as the hero is aware they are deep and adjusts accordingly. Fairly recently I caught a villain making a mad river overshove with non-nut monster holdings stacks deep on 10Zoom - A5 on a 5xK5x board (no ace), into my KK. Why would you want to pass on that action?

Originally posted by Jaissica

Originally posted by wimNP
Secondly, you shouldn't play zoom/fast with deep stacks. Leave the group and reenter with a full stack.

Couldn't disagree more, as long as the hero is aware they are deep and adjusts accordingly. Fairly recently I caught a villain making a mad river overshove with non-nut monster holdings stacks deep on 10Zoom - A5 on a 5xK5x board (no ace), into my KK. Why would you want to pass on that action?

Because I hate moneyX(

I probably would have just flat called the raise pre flop. I like the call on the flop too, don't want to get too crazy. And I think the fold on the turn was the right move with 4 to straight. Sucks to fold overpairs in this spot, but it's definitely the right move in my opinion.