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KK tegen een cold 4 bet

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Party, $0.02/$0.04 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $9.81 (245.3 bb)
BB: $1.29 (32.3 bb)
UTG: $8.69 (217.3 bb)
MP: $4.89 (122.3 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.93 (148.3 bb)
BTN: $2.25 (56.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K K
UTG raises to $0.12, MP folds, Hero raises to $0.36, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.93, SB calls $4.73

Flop: ($12.02) A 3 T (2 players)
Turn: ($12.02) A (2 players)
River: ($12.02) J (2 players)

Results:

Spoiler

$12.02 pot ($0.60 rake)
Final Board: A 3 T A J
SB showed A A and won $11.42 ($5.49 net)
Hero mucked K K and lost (-$5.93 net)

Stats

VPIP/PFR/AF
FCB-flop/FCB-turn/CB-flop/CB-turn
3 bet/fold 3 bet
Fold to steal/fold to steal on BB from SB/ 3 bet steal

I think I can't fold here because his stat are still pretty loose. BUt with what stats could I fold here?


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10 replies
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Going all-in pre with KK is correct even vs a bit tighter guy. You don't need to worry about this. Well played.


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bonecore
Joined: 02.11.2009

you need the cold4b stat but you need a large sample
anyhow if his overall 3b% is smaller than 4% then we can assume his 4b would be 2% and his cold 4b would be even narrower!

If he just 4bets(not shove) then we have different pot odds so even if he 3b 4% i would still call his 4bet with KK.
folding KK preflop is a nut vs nut situation and is not important in long run

This reminded me of this hand i played a few months ago:

Spoiler

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
SB: $29.04 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 12, 3B: 4, AF: 3.0, Hands: 478
BB: $28.56 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 1.8, Hands: 363
UTG: $29.61 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 3.2, Hands: 1608
MP: $35.46 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 21, 3B: 10, AF: 2.8, Hands: 3911
Hero (CO): $46.28 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 2.6, Hands: 351408
BTN: $25.00 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 19, 3B: 7, AF: 1.8, Hands: 7261

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with K :heart: K :club:
UTG raises to $0.60, MP calls $0.60, Hero raises to $2.60, 1 fold, SB raises to $29.04, 3 folds, Hero calls $26.44

Flop: ($59.53) 7 :diamond: 5 :diamond: 6 :heart: (2 players)

Turn: ($59.53) 9 :spade: (2 players)

River: ($59.53) 9 :diamond: (2 players)

Final Pot: $59.53
SB shows A :diamond: A :spade:
Hero shows K :heart: K :club:
SB wins $57.53
(Rake: $2.00)


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

happens on a daily basis, don't bother


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Tough luck that you ran into AA, but I think you made the right call by shoving. I would have done the exact same thing, and I think most other people would have too.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I think you must give us your stats and UTG stats too. The cold 4 bet when UTG is involved is a strong move.

Though going broke with KKis not a big mistake.
Do not forget to take a note on villain.


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wimNP
Joined: 11.03.2011

The chance of getting pocket AA is 6/1326 hands or 0.45%.
The chance of getting pocket KK is 6/1326 hands or 0.45%.
There are 5 villains in this hand. Each of them has the chance of having AA. One villain folded before Hero.
The chance that Hero's pocket KK meet pocket AA in this hand is 5x 0.45% = 2.25%
So getting it all-in preflop is nice.


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

Originally posted by nitrol
I think you must give us your stats and UTG stats too. The cold 4 bet when UTG is involved is a strong move.

Though going broke with KKis not a big mistake.
Do not forget to take a note on villain.

The question is as well if villain is capable to 4bet/call with QQ or less and then is KK a easy stack off.

Further It’s good to keep in mind that the thread title is in Dutch, but I expect it’s not too difficult to guess what you mean.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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poompah
Joined: 26.12.2011

Your calculations do not take into account card removal (nor ranges that would play a big PF pot -- though that is not the point of your calculation I guess).
Math solutions such as this are made on the basis of 5 opponents NOT having AA and that works slightly differently with different results than your method (isolated player -- no card removal).
Kinda meaningless calculation -- your point is not wrong but your math is not right!!


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I meant that we should look at what our stats and utg stats look like. If we are tight and utg is tight too, then the cold 4b is stronger.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

If Hero tends here to discuss about 4-bet situations, I'd say it's more often for value than for bluff on low stakes.


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