It's the right call from the turn???

definitely raise the flop. It is really drawy so u should protect your hand, plus u want to build up a pot for turn shove to get max value out of him. As played hard to find a fold in this pot with two pairs so cal is fine even vs overbet on the turn.

But remeber not to slowplay your value hands ever at those stakes.

Thanks for the reply

Q8s is a very loose open from CO, imo especially with a shortstack in the blinds who may 3bet shove quite a lot. So for me, it's a fold pre.

On that flop with that hand with that shortstack, I would slow play too and let him hang himself as he did OTT.

open is fine, u can go with lower sizing if u are scared by 3bet shove. Beginner course suggest opening fro 2,5bb from Co but u can lower it even to two bb if there is 20bb short.

I agree that opening this from CO is totally fine. It is not very loose. Not opening this would be too tight imo.
Raise the flop.
As played OTT might be close to a fold but I guess calling against recreational player is ok.

Well i would play K8 only if i decided to widen up my range from CO. (Playing by confidants course)

The board is really wet, enough draws are possible. The flushdraw and the straightdraws like AJ, AT, TJ even T9. After the turn he could even gotten his first card for a backdoor flush. So maybe he just saw a cbet and thought he can improve. - Only think i wonder is his call on the turn. After that he must have had any made hand. So OTR i would just check back since he has no reason to think i am bluffing.

Originally posted by Arnusen
Well i would play K8 only if i decided to widen up my range from CO. (Playing by confidants course)

The board is really wet, enough draws are possible. The flushdraw and the straightdraws like AJ, AT, TJ even T9. After the turn he could even gotten his first card for a backdoor flush. So maybe he just saw a cbet and thought he can improve. - Only think i wonder is his call on the turn. After that he must have had any made hand. So OTR i would just check back since he has no reason to think i am bluffing.

Spoiler

Ok ok, i wonder why he called that big bet. Maybe it was too big, so he thought u might have air?! I mean it shouldnt be a call by him. So you couldnt do much more afterwards. That river was unlucky. But i like that u checked OTR other than raising again, you knew you were beat so i think you played it well tho.

You may not have noticed but villian shoved all-in OTT so there was no action on river.

Oh thanks Turok, im surfing with my phone atm. Kinda sucks 😁

Originally posted by confidant91
definitely raise the flop. ...

This is true, but only because villain has a small stack. Raising deep could be hazardous. I personally find pleasure in donking into certain regs with nuts. They become angry and decide to "protect" their pair and lose all money. Can be balanced if needed by donking with combo-draws too. Then a raise of my donk is met with an AI regardless if I draw or hold nuts. Fun game this is:)

Didnt see that as well, good addition

still raise the flop even when deep. His range is draw heavy nad he can be donking some pairs as well. Just be carefull when he donks/3bet cause than it is almost always two pair plus.

You have a hand that serves best as a bluff catcher. Use it as such when deep, at least against competent opposition. Put it this way: Bottom two pair is a small pot hand. Raising might succeed in folding out his bluffs. Serves no good purpose at all. Charging draws? Well, that is not the only part of a competent villain's range. And you don't know which part you play against if a 3-bet comes.

half donk= fish most of the time so bottom pair is crushing our oponnent range. If u dont raise here u are loosing shit load of value.

I raise here. I raise when deeper too. I'm just not enthusiastic about raising a competent opponent with more than a regular stack behind. My opponent is then probably up to no good for me. You'll see plenty of threads here where someone reasons like "he's a fish, and can therefore not have a good hand, and must be charged and punished for donking and therefore I lose 200 bb with my top pair (or two pair or whatever)". That said, small donks I treat like checks by default.