HUSNG's are absolutely pointless...

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $50(BB)
BB ($1449)
HERO ($1551)

Dealt to Hero 8♣ J♥

HERO Calls $25 (Rem. Stack: 1501), BB Checks

Flop ($100) 2♠ 6♥ J♠
BB Bets $1399 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), HERO Calls $1399 (Rem. Stack: 102)

Turn ($2898) 2♠ 6♥ J♠ 9♣

River ($2898) 2♠ 6♥ J♠ 9♣ 5♠

BB shows 8♠ 6♦

HERO wins $2898

This hand driven to you directly from DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database
Board: 2s 6h Js Xx Xx

Equity Win Tie Hand Range

40.3375% 37.1811% 3.1564% [ 22(100), 66-88(100), A3s-ATs(100), KTs(100), QTs+(100), J8s+(100), T7s+(100), 96s+(100), 86s+(100), 75s+(100), 65s(100), 54s(100), KJo(100), QJo(100), J8o+(100) ]

59.6625% 56.5061% 3.1564% [ 8cJh ]

Just using the space here to test how DriveHUD exports equity calculations.

I think the reason Reg speed HU SNGs aren't popular like Hypers were is because they take so long. The ROI is higher, but the hourly is lower. Maybe not anymore, all the hyper HU SNG players I know all moved to spins or MTTs.

HUSNGs are great imo, and with your background in chess I can understand how you like the format. I think the swings are huge as well.

Originally posted by Chowchow12
I think the reason Reg speed HU SNGs aren't popular like Hypers were is because they take so long. The ROI is higher, but the hourly is lower. Maybe not anymore, all the hyper HU SNG players I know all moved to spins or MTTs.

HUSNGs are great imo, and with your background in chess I can understand how you like the format. I think the swings are huge as well.

All of this is true. In addition:

1) Right, I'll eventually move to Jackpots and also MTT's but I like the HUSNG's right now as they help all facets of my game, and it's giving me a nice, affordable introduction to push/shove. Not like before where I had vaguely gone over it. I'm really studying it actively now. That DriveHUD and some other software constructs villain's range, etc, is extremely helpful, too.

2) Along with Jackpots, there are a lot of new, interesting SNG formats springing up on different sites. Once again, whereas most of my previous play experience is in the cash game, it's nice to have a 1 on 1 introduction to these pots with escalating blinds, just to get my feet wet. It's definitely not hurting my hand reading, either.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $30(BB)
BTN ($1220)
HERO ($1780)

Dealt to Hero 8♦ 8♠

BTN Raises To $45 (Rem. Stack: 1160), HERO Raises To $1750 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BTN Calls $1160 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0)

Flop ($3000) A♥ A♦ 6♦

Turn ($3000) A♥ A♦ 6♦ 7♥

River ($3000) A♥ A♦ 6♦ 7♥ 6♥

BTN shows Q♣ K♠

HERO wins $3000

I've been doing a lot of reading, too and seeing how to navigate different styles of players heads up. This was an extremely loose call compared to what most are making at this level but villain had already made it crystal clear that he was there for one reason: To shove. 88 seemed like a slight favorite vs his range and that's exactly what it was. A very slight favorite.

Something that's also helping: I'm learning where I can basically bet for free in spots where, late in the blinds levels, betting like 400 into an 800 pot can be hugely profitable as a bluff against players who overfold and you have the lead. If they call, you're even and he's seen a bluff. If he doesn't, he basically puts himself in a spot where he's going to need to win 2-3+ shoves to ultimately put me away. So, now I'm starting to dig into the meat and potatoes of the math behind these more.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
People are still down voting the thread [...] So what does downvoting the thread do for them? Make them feel better about the situation? Come on...that's pretty pathetic.

Hi there. I have been following your thread. I just downvoted it, let me explain why.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
You can't blame people for thinking these sites are rigged. I have never seen the kind of beats and "coolers" in live poker that I see online. Sure, they happen but absolutely nowhere near the frequency of which they happen online. There shouldn't be *any* difference between the live and online game. So why is there? I think it's pretty obvious what the deal is.

Also: your sample size of 18% over 150 games is entirley meaningless, and on page three you used the term 'negative variance' to explain your poor results. Negative variance, as I understand it, is not a concept that applies to poker.

Best of luck though.

Originally posted by mostlyfolding

Originally posted by TakingAShot
People are still down voting the thread [...] So what does downvoting the thread do for them? Make them feel better about the situation? Come on...that's pretty pathetic.

Hi there. I have been following your thread. I just downvoted it, let me explain why.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
You can't blame people for thinking these sites are rigged. I have never seen the kind of beats and "coolers" in live poker that I see online. Sure, they happen but absolutely nowhere near the frequency of which they happen online. There shouldn't be *any* difference between the live and online game. So why is there? I think it's pretty obvious what the deal is.

Also: your sample size of 18% over 150 games is entirley meaningless, and on page three you used the term 'negative variance' to explain your poor results. Negative variance, as I understand it, is not a concept that applies to poker.

Best of luck though.

Yes - but what did downvoting the thread do for you? Make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

Negative variance doesn't apply to poker? .... "Poor results" - If I repeatedly get the money in as a large favorite, and repeatedly lose those all ins, that's poor results that certainly have absolutely nothing to do with my performance. What would you call that? Positive variance?

edit: Wtf? I just checked out your blog. Dude, you have a bankroll of less than $50 and play nanostakes. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. What a little troll.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Wtf? I just checked out your blog. Dude, you have a bankroll of less than $50 and play nanostakes. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. What a little troll.

Great, somebody read my blog. Thanks man.

Originally posted by mostlyfolding

Originally posted by TakingAShot
Wtf? I just checked out your blog. Dude, you have a bankroll of less than $50 and play nanostakes. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. What a little troll.

Great, somebody read my blog. Thanks man.

You're just in absolutely no position to be judging anyone in the world of poker right now. Downvoting threads? Explaining negative variance (or the lack of it) and things? Come on, man. At least get some experience under your belt before you start pontificating to others on the forums.

210 turbo HUSNG's on Ignition and back up to a 4.2 ROI. I see you have to really be crushing each stake before moving up on these because it takes a good ~60% win ratio to profit at a reasonable pace.

I'm still wondering how worth it these are in the long run. Are some of the heads up specialists making close to or more money than cash game players?

I don't really get what the big deal about downvoting threads is supposed to be. The dislike button is there for a reason, what's so "pathetic" about using it? We wouldn't say that anyone who ever downvoted a video on YouTube is pathetic, would we?

Just don't take it personally, man.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
So, I had a nice ROI of about 18% going after 150 HUSNG's. Then? The same thing that has happened every single time I've started winning in poker: Beat, after beat, after beat, after beat. Took the ROI back down to 1.8. Just losing 8/10 games, all with the money in the middle as an 80%+ favorite. 95% lost. 97% lost. Countless 70-80%'s lost.

Luckily, I lost virtually nothing in the end but this certainly reminded me of why I've always been so hesitant to move to higher stakes. We're not talking about getting outplayed - We're talking about uncontrollable, never ending "negative variance" that just makes it absolutely impossible to make a profit. Guys, really: Things have gotten so nitty that $1 HUSNG's are taking an hour. 100+ hands. Guys just REFUSING to go all in without the absolute nuts. Down to the very last blind. Shove on them before then? They win their 18% all in, double up and are totally back in the game. Or it's a coin toss, they double up, and are back in the game. You need to be prepared to spend immense amount of time grinding for pennies in both the cash game and tournament game at this point. I've really exhausted just about all the time and energy I have for this.

I gave chess up. This is about to be next. 3.5 years of playing on and off and I've never gotten less out of anything lol. I don't even see the point to studying or using the software anymore. No matter how well I start playing, there's just a massive, massive run of bad beats from hell right around the corner. Considering that this is what most people experience in online poker - I really don't know if I'll be able to convince myself to sit down to this again tomorrow. I'm tired, hungry, just wasted a couple more weeks on this game for absolutely nothing and I couldn't even fathom playing this for higher stakes. I'm sorry but, I'm just never going to be ok with losing hundreds or thousands of dollars as the legitimate winner of the hand.

I know all about variance and sample sizes but 3.5 years of the same thing happening just over and over and ...come on. I see that if I spent time on this every day, studied, grinded out bonuses, killed myself playing all weekend every weekend, etc - I'd be able to make a bit of money and probably transition over to live nicely. I just don't see the point. By then I'd have made more money at anything else and actually have something to show for it.

Everyone keeps talking about hard work on this site and yet I've never, ever seen any game, job, sport, pursuit, ...ANYTHING, that rewards you less for your hard work than poker.

- lol u cry because u havent won any money after 150 sngs?
- u are getting 3.5 years only bad beats and this is the reason why u lose? No u are not running bad u have just a TON f leaks. Or have u played only 3k games in 3.5 years.

Under $70.000 under EV after 4492 games. How does ur EV graph look like?

^ So then why are you playing it? (The HUSNG's?)

And no - I don't have 3.5 years of SNG experience at all lol. I have 3.5 years, on and off, of online poker experience, almost all cash games. I have no live experience yet.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
^ So then why are you playing it? (The HUSNG's?)

Because its profitable and I like to play it. But of course the games become tougher and tougher.
Illegal Tools are also a problem Pokerstars has banned recently a few highstakes regs because of that.

Originally posted by CptJokerFish

Originally posted by TakingAShot
^ So then why are you playing it? (The HUSNG's?)

Because its profitable and I like to play it. But of course the games become tougher and tougher.
Illegal Tools are also a problem Pokerstars has banned recently a few highstakes regs because of that.

You know, some of the sites give a *lot* of time for decisions in the HUSNG's. There are obviously going to be players using software to make decisions, as I would imagine there are in the cash games, too.

Originally posted by TakingAShot
I'm becoming more and more an advocate of playing with a deep bankroll. At least for me, at least for now.

Yeah, playing deep-stack cash games is great -- but (to me at least) only if there are one or two deep stacks at the table. When everyone has the deep stack, the edge is gone.

Best of luck,
VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by TakingAShot
I'm becoming more and more an advocate of playing with a deep bankroll. At least for me, at least for now.

Yeah, playing deep-stack cash games is great -- but (to me at least) only if there are one or two deep stacks at the table. When everyone has the deep stack, the edge is gone.

Best of luck,
VS

No, I was specifically talking about playing with a deep bankroll...no matter what format you play. It gives you the freedom to make plays and decisions and against some villains, you can tell by their play that they're scared money, afraid to lose buy ins.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $100(BB)
BTN ($2380)
HERO ($620)

Dealt to Hero 6♥ 5♥

BTN Raises To $150 (Rem. Stack: 2180), HERO Raises To $520 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BTN Calls $420 (Rem. Stack: 1760)

Flop ($1240) 4♠ 9♥ T♥

Turn ($1240) 4♠ 9♥ T♥ J♠

River ($1240) 4♠ 9♥ T♥ J♠ 2♥

BTN shows 2♣ A♣

HERO wins $1240

Each day I seem to understand the game a bit more. Whereas I never would have gone all in here with 56s before today, now I know that in this spot, it's best to shove and let the hand realize it's full equity. I had about 6 bb's and this is certainly better than ATC.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD & Database

NL Holdem $30(BB)
BB ($1804)
HERO ($1196)

Dealt to Hero 9♣ 9♠

HERO Calls $15 (Rem. Stack: 1166), BB Raises To $75 (Rem. Stack: 1699), HERO Raises To $1166 (allin) (Rem. Stack: 0), BB Calls $1091 (Rem. Stack: 608)

Flop ($2392) 5♠ 5♦ 4♦

Turn ($2392) 5♠ 5♦ 4♦ Q♦

River ($2392) 5♠ 5♦ 4♦ Q♦ K♠

BB shows 5♣ 5♥

BB wins $2392

♠_o:

^ I know this looks like a bad beat but i'm kind of curious. what was your mindset going all-in here?