Fold QQ or Push?

Shove all day

With a player left to act behind you I like a fold, I would also size up on your original raise , make it about a pot sized raise .

Without stats or tells this spot in NL2 or NL5 smells clearly as a pocket kings or aces.
I don't go all-in pre-flop with queens.
Besides, like Cassey55 said, you have a player to act behind you, so this is a situation of push or fold. A good fold, imo

I wouldn't be to scared of the MP player. He's seems like a passive station pre-flop.
In this situation I would 3bet around 12bb against a 4x open and her-evaluete on further action.
Than you get more value and than it's less likely it ends up multi way.
As played it's a nasty spot and readless I wouldn't mind the fold at a full ring table.
At least this time you get free info after the hand and that you know that you can shove next time if he will 4bet again.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Thanks, it gives me some validation on my game before the Queens become a scary hand for me

I dont play fullring but I expect the ranges in these positions to be extremely tight against unknowns. I would even consider just flatting preflop. Upside is that you keep the weaker part of his range in play. The downside is that there are many players behind you. So I would look at the table and try to figure out how likely it is that this is gonna end up a multiway pot which you dont want with QQ. If unlikely then I would just flat. If likely or dont know, then 3bet.

But by 3betting you make his range totally uncapped to AK and QQ+. If he 4bets you have to fold. If he flats, be aware postflop. And yeah, make the 3bet bigger for sure, 11-12bb sounds alright. The way the preflop action played out it is a good exploitative fold.

After seeing the rest of the hand it is now clear that they are both fishes and you can stack off lighter with them next time

Exploitative fold

Made my day. Thanks.

Originally posted by Fanko
Exploitative fold

Made my day. Thanks.

Please provide us with you expert opinion

An exploitative play would be a play that in some way exploits the opponent. For example, 4betting lightly from SB after the aggressive player from BTN 3bets the ABC player at CO who folds 75 % to 3bet. An exploitative fold is a nonsense since it is impossible to exploit anyone by folding a hand.

Not really. You can exploit a general tendency as well. And general tendency on micros, especially in fullring, is that UTG 4bet is very strong and you can easily fold QQ unless you have other info on your opponent. So you exploit the fact, that people just dont bluff often enough in this situation. Therefore you can exploit by folding as well. The same goes for typical micro limits fish lines such as check/minraise turn or river, or limp/3bet preflop. These are typically very strong inclined towards nuts so you can exploit this by folding even strong hands which you would not fold otherwise.
Maybe you need someone more credible than me explaining this (understandable, I am just a weak NL5 reg). Try this video by W34z3l - https://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/33826/. In 3:50 he talks about exploitative folds.

Exploiting someone by folding is an amusing concept. It directly contradicts common sense and logic. He can make an exploitative bet even with weaker hands because you have to fold huge part of your range but EXPLOITING by folding does not exist.

Originally posted by Fanko
Exploiting someone by folding is an amusing concept. It directly contradicts common sense and logic. He can make an exploitative bet even with weaker hands because you have to fold huge part of your range but EXPLOITING by folding does not exist.

Exploitative folding is a real strategy. I study at pokercoaching and JL talks about it often, it’s easiest to apply versus nitty players , when they raise we can easily get out of the way with hands we would have otherwise continued with had a different player type open raised instead, this is exploitative folding. You can even over-fold hands to some degree pre-flop or post flop since tight players arnt bluffing often enough like Dandiiik pointed out.

Ev fold = 0

Exploitative = making use of a situation or treating others unfairly in order to gain an advantage or benefit

Originally posted by Fanko
Ev fold = 0

Exploitative = making use of a situation or treating others unfairly in order to gain an advantage or benefit

Love it how you understand the game and definitions better than poker coaches and players who play higher limits than you.

Love it how you cannot understand basic concepts yet argue about everything.

Originally posted by Fanko
Love it how you cannot understand basic concepts yet argue about everything.

Well you called me a fish and someone else a fish over lines you do not understand as they deviate from your basic TAG play. You continue to tell people a poker definition that everyone uses is wrong. Now you claim I don't understand basic concepts.

Your last hand review is this https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=3125915#post3125915. , which is also wrong because of the way you think in certain situations as you don't see past EV and TAG play:

I don't claim to understand everything but at least I am not so daft to go against everyone claiming to be right or calling other people fish.

I am just claiming that your line was fishy (which it was), that the T9s hand was misplayed (which it was) and that there is no such thing as exploiting people by folding (which is so painfully obvious that it is hilarious to have to explain it). That is all.

My hand was an experimental line. If I were to play you for example you would lay down just about everything except trips or a made full house, possibly QQ+ but then again you would try to shove that pre-flop.

The T9 hand was not misplayed at all for the level he is playing at aseveryone else agrees. Again if he played that Vs you you would pre-flop fold a majority of your range and post-flop would pay him off or would check it down to him after flop.

Exploitative fold is a thing because the community as whole agrees that adjusting your pre-flop fold or flop fold range Vs a specific player is called that.

Just a bit of advice:
You are likely a decent player for your limit which I am guessing is NL5 or 10. Probably slightly or moderately winning.

You might not make it much further though as your biggest problem is your attitude. You are not coachable. You won't even consider the possibility that people may 3-bet suited connectors and why that's profitable. On NL50 for example this is not uncommon especially BU vs CO etc.

When people start completely new at poker some of them will limp AA KK etc. Because they think this is good to trap. So people will tell them they are wrong and some will adjust and raise and 3-bet etc. And some will not and argue why they are right. The ones that adjust will move up in stakes and become better players, the ones that don't end up quitting.

For your level you are where beginners are with their AA stuff. You insist you are right with your play (which you may be for your level) and that others who play a more advanced line are not. If you want to move up and become better please be more open.

I'll let this be now. I got nothing against you personally but you need to consider that poker is more than standard plays used in NL 5 and 10