Fold QQ or Push?

Originally posted by Fanko
there is no such thing as exploiting people by folding (which is so painfully obvious that it is hilarious to have to explain it). That is all.

I have ended this discussion but it is fun to watch it continue I am still really surprised though that there is someone on PSGY, who has been actually very active in the last 10 years, and who can argue with you to death and deny one the most basic concepts of the game. That is just so surreal for me. What have you been doing here for the 10 years? Like how is this possible? It is like you would say there is no value bet, that it just doesnt exist, period. Or that the Sun doesnt shine or my mom is not my mom. You are denying something that simply cannot be denied because its a fact.

The only reasonable explanation is that you are trolling. Or some Chinese or Russian trolls hacked into your account and troll around here.

Btw. there is literally a whole freaking article about exploitive folds: https://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/exploits-exploitive-folds/. Just a whole article on PSGY is dedicated to exploitive folding.

One more thing. From Daniel Negreanus Twitter:

Originally posted by Chris1986
Hi,
I played a new table with no stats about the villains. In this moment i was afraid running into AA or KK. What do you think, fold, push all in or see what the flop brings. But if I thought playing against KK+ it doesn't help me to see the flop.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 93 BB
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 93.5 BB
UTG: 100 BB
Hero (UTG+1): 101.5 BB
MP: 265 BB
MP+1: 182.5 BB
MP+2: 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, MP+1 posts penalty blind 1.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 3 BB) Hero has Q♥ Q♣

UTG raises to 4 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, MP calls 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to 27 BB, fold, MP calls 18 BB

Spoiler

Pre Flop: (pot: 3 BB) Hero has Q♥ Q♣

UTG raises to 4 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, MP calls 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to 27 BB, fold, MP calls 18 BB

Flop: (66 BB, 2 players) 9♦ 8♦ 7♠
UTG bets 63.5 BB, MP calls 63.5 BB

Turn: (193 BB, 2 players) J♠
UTG bets 9.5 BB and is all-in, MP calls 9.5 BB

River: (212 BB, 2 players) 4♦

MP cashed out 32 BB for a fee of 0.5 BB

UTG shows J♣ K♣ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 45%, Flop 38%, Turn 83%)
MP shows 8♠ A♥ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 55%, Flop 62%, Turn 17%)
UTG wins 204.5 BB

Why do people play like this ? I would fold

@ Dragar

I am comfortable with my play, game knowledge and especially with my win rate. All your assumptions are based on little to no information and are also incorrect in their entirety.

@ Dandiiik

Well, I was busy making money the last ten years playing poker. The fact that a large group of people agrees on something doesn't make it right and certainly doesn't make it a fact. The term "exploitative fold" is misleading and is largely used to mean that you are forced to overfold in certain spots for various reasons. That does not make it correct to claim that you exploit people by overfolding, since it is them who exploit you and the general tendency of people to overfold in particular spots even when from EV point of view they should defend wider.

Sorry man but your winrate doesnt exist. And you certainly werent making money in the last 10 years. Doesnt matter if you have it in your tracker and think you have a positive winrate. I say it doesnt exist so it doesnt.

Originally posted by Fanko
@ Dragar

I am comfortable with my play, game knowledge and especially with my win rate. All your assumptions are based on little to no information and are also incorrect in their entirety.

@ Dandiiik

Well, I was busy making money the last ten years playing poker. The fact that a large group of people agrees on something doesn't make it right and certainly doesn't make it a fact. The term "exploitative fold" is misleading and is largely used to mean that you are forced to overfold in certain spots for various reasons. That does not make it correct to claim that you exploit people by overfolding, since it is them who exploit you and the general tendency of people to overfold in particular spots even when from EV point of view they should defend wider.

Saving money is the same as winning money as far as your bankroll is concerned, so it is technically +EV to exploitative fold in certain spots. If you don’t want to believe or use the strategy I get it, but the best players in the world know about it, apply it and speak openly about it so it makes your argument silly

@Fanko

2 years ago you were making a shot at NL10 with a 165$ bank roll.
Given that and your posting here and your refusal to see past yourself I don't think you would have beat that limit, that is what I made my assumptions on. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Enjoy your winnings.

Whatever, guys, I do not feel the need to prove anything to you. Have fun.

https://files.fm/thumb_show.php?i=bzaw7qr7

That is after March 1 2020 when I started with 30 $ at Poker Stars.

Hi guys, loved the discussion.
What about this scenario at NL2? The instant 4bet of the SB confused me.

CO raises to 2.5BB

SB 100bb (who I have 0 stats on) instantly 4bets to 26BB

BB folds, CO folds, BTN (me) folds

Cheers