Why I never draw to straights in NL 5-Card Draw

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Joined: 02.09.2010

30.11.2020, 05:34 +1

May the odds be ever in your favour!
In NL 5-Card Draw you have implied odds -- the notion that you can win more than just straight pot-odds

The odds against hitting the straight are 4.88:1
(8 outs, 47 unknown cards, so 39 bad cards, 8 good ones, )

Let's see what that looks like:
PokerStars, 5 Card Draw No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 5 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat

UTG (Hero): $23.40 (94 bb)
CO: $21.61 (86 bb)
BU: $30.49 (122 bb)
SB: $3.82 (15 bb)
BB: $24.96 (100 bb)

Two Pair 9s and 6s is the hand that his halfway between AAxxx and a Royal Flush, so definitely an open.
Deal: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with 9♠:7♦:7♠:A♣:9♦:
Hero raises to $0.75, 2 players fold,
SB calls $0.65, 1 fold <== he must put in 0.65 to win 1.75
His direct pot odds are 2.7:1 but if he hits -- and I have worse, he can get more -- but will it be enough?

Draw One: ($1.75) 9♠:7♦:7♠:9♦:7♣: (2 players)
SB draws 1, UTG (Hero) draws A♣:
SB bets $1.67, Hero raises to $5.13, SB calls $1.40 (all-in)

Total pot: $7.89 (Rake: $0.36)

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows 9♠:7♦:7♠:9♦:7♣: (a full house, Sevens full of Nines)
SB shows 4♦:3♠:6♥:5♣:7♥: (a straight, Three to Seven)
UTG (Hero) wins $7.53

Let's say I did not hit my full house.
If he leads as he did, and I fold, he gets nothing.
If I call, as a bluff catch -- which is quite common, he can add 1.67 to his winnings, for a total of 3.42 so he makes 5.26:1 which is barely above break-even implied odds.
If he bets less, I might call more, but he won't even make his pot odds then, so:
:diamond: Point 1:Even if you hit, and even if you are called when you hit, you rarely make more than pot odds.

:diamond: Point 2:The hand above illustrates reverse implied odds. If you hit your straight, and villain outdraws you to a flush, (4.22:1) a better straight (4.88:1) or a full house (15:1) then you're done for.
If this happens EVEN ONCE it takes such a long time to recover in cash games, that it isn't worth playing baby straights.

Can you win more by playing it differently?
You bet! (quite literally in fact)
In this case, villain could quite easily have 3Bet his baby straight, and I would mostly likely have folded.
3Betting in NL 5-Card Draw is rarely done with less than Kings-up or higher, and 3Bets are rarely called by less than Aces-up.
Having thus 3Bet, you now can lead 1/2 pot whether or not you hit and expect to get folds
If you don't oh, well...

So if you're going to play like that, it is best to play with at least a flush draw...
Which is why I don't draw to straights in NL 5-Card Draw

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As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws from Moonfleet by JM Falkner

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ghaleon

Joined: 17.10.2007

Posts: 11,325

01.12.2020, 02:45 0

What sort of hands are usually not changed at all and raised as bluff? Saying that hey I have straight or better already. Probably rarely some total crap that doesn't give anything? Or perhaps like some AKQJ8 that block big pairs, etc.

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VorpalF2F

Super Moderator

Joined: 02.09.2010

Posts: 45,056

07.12.2020, 00:27 0

Originally posted by ghaleon
What sort of hands are usually not changed at all and raised as bluff? Saying that hey I have straight or better already. Probably rarely some total crap that doesn't give anything? Or perhaps like some AKQJ8 that block big pairs, etc.

Excellent question.
If players are keeping track they might notice that you stand pat relatively rarely.
There are 19092 5-card combos that are pat -- straights, flushes, full houses and straight flushes
There are 2598960 combos in all, which means 1 pat hand in 136 hands.

In practice you play far fewer than this, because when you open raise, you quite often get a chorus of folds, so they never see your pat hand.

If you try to pat too often, you'll get called more often.
Some players pat their weakest 2-pair hands if they're in position, so they can see what the players before them are drawing.
So if you had 4422X you might pat if the players before you were both drawing 3.
In either case, you play bet/fold post draw -- but if either player hits trips (about 7:1 against) they'll likely call your post-draw bet (especially if you have been caught playing this way).

I have a special group of hands that I snow with -- 4 broadway cards, plus a 9 with no OESD or flush draws.
AKJT9 for example.
I like to play these If I am raising first in, and open with a standard raise, then pat if called, fold if raised.
If I pat, I lead post-draw and I don't care if I get caught because later, my legit pat hands get paid off.

As you say, if you raise a hand like this from the CO or BTN, you're blocking a lot of hands that would normally call.

Incidentally, I've seen some people pat natural quads, but this seems beyond foolish, since if you draw one you could have anything from a wheel draw to quads

Bizarre hand? Post it in Hand of the Day!!
Mind Games: My blog
As in life, so in a game of hazard, skill will make something of the worst of throws from Moonfleet by JM Falkner

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