Streak on some bad beats

Originally posted by LoonyToon
How else to make money then to get in with best percentage?

Vorpal, games I play, 1 or 2 USD tournaments, people will call like crazy anyways. In that particular hand I wanted as many people to join with shitty hands. I wanted to look weak cause QK on this tables is almost like AK.

Hi LoonyToon,
The hands you are playing are fine -- nothing wrong there.
The idea that you can win with KK vs several callers is where the problem lies.

Here is what I mean -- KK vs 1 players who will call with any hand in the top 50%,

Equity calculations by Equilab

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    79.25%  78.92%   0.34% { KK }
MP3    20.75%  20.41%   0.34% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }

Now see what happens if four players all call with their speculative hands...

Equity calculations by Equilab

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    46.78%  46.48%   0.30% { KK }
MP3    13.31%  12.56%   0.75% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
CO     13.30%  12.55%   0.75% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
BU     13.31%  12.55%   0.75% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }
SB     13.30%  12.55%   0.75% { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o }

Although each one has only a 13% chance to win you will win less than half the time -- even with your monster hand.
This is why the isolation raise is so important.

Also, in at least one of those hands you had a short stack. Since these guys "will call with anything" rather than limp, shove -- if you shove and get it in good, you will double up a good percentage of the time.

I recommend you go through the lesson plan given here: https://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/sit-and-go/sng-lesson-overview/

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood you - does me posting hands to better evaluate my play is ranting? Hm, I don't know how else to present things to you.
Other then that ... I don't know, maybe me saying "How to get money if you don't go in with good %" is maybe too harsh? But that was just a question, and after all if we talk to each other point is to get to the answer quickly so I'm asking and saying things directly.

Or ... maybe I should respond with yes, okay, thanks because Vorpal is moderator? Then say that and give me his paypal to buy him a beer. I didn't want to insult anyone or pretend I'm so good. But let's be real, if point is to make money that's a little bit condescending cause we all know that we play for money. Only way I could ALWAYS make money is that I know hole cards of other players. As I can't do that, only thing that goes to my mind is to calculate the best odds and go in as I usually go, 50% is minimum. Usually 80+%.

Danke viel fur sie zeit.

Wouldn't that basically mean that when enough people are not isolated from my monster hand I should fold premium cards? Should I fold AA vs 3 way pot? 4 way pot?

Guys ... look at this hand, and this is not the first time. After that again I got the aces.

After this again, A10 vs 10K, all in preflop and got busted on river.
I'm rational as a mf*! but ... this is so weird now like i lose on every river or 90% of them in last 3 days ... and this weird card pattern.

thx

Originally posted by LoonyToon
Wouldn't that basically mean that when enough people are not isolated from my monster hand I should fold premium cards? Should I fold AA vs 3 way pot? 4 way pot?

No -- but you're not isolating -- you are limping or betting too small.
To isolate you must RAISE with your big hands.
The standard is to raise 3 big blinds plus one more for everyone in the pot
If there is a raise and a call before you then raise 4x the last bet

You are still going to get sucked out on -- guaranteed -- but it will be far less often.

Look at the first AA hand in your video.
You are in a 4-way pot with somebody that has KTo
When the hand opens, The pot is 2808, which means that 4 people each put 700 in the pot so I'm guessing the BB was 600 or so plus antes
You only have 1000 behind, which means you started with around 1700, which means you started with 3 (or maybe 4) big blinds.
YOU MUST SHOVE IN THIS SPOT
You have some small fold equity -- the pot would nearly double your stack, and even though every other player covers you, most of them would fold.
If the KTo guy calls he will still win, but at least you played it right.

In all the hands you showed us, you started with the best hand.
However you don't win by having the best starting hand -- you win if you have the best ending hand (or to have everyone fold)
Even the best ending hand is worthless unless you build a big pot with your starting hand -- which again means you must raise.
so:
 To get others to fold and win: Raise
 To get to showdown with the best hand and a big pot: Raise

VERY VERY RARELY does it make sense to limp aces, and that is usually not until you're heads up and against a guy who likes to jam over limpers.

If you don't believe me -- and it appears that you don't -- post hands (one at a time is best) in the Hand Discussion for No Limit or for your Sit-and-go hands post them in Hand Discussions for Sit & Go

All the best,
VS

I believe your theory but I don't believe people will call that much with shitty hands and I won't be able to trap them. In the end what happens is I waste my premium cards of their folds.

Thanks anyways.

Originally posted by LoonyToon
I believe your theory but I don't believe people will call that much with shitty hands and I won't be able to trap them. In the end what happens is I waste my premium cards of their folds.

Thanks anyways.

U are collecting every limper BB and the Blinds.. which is enough for ~approx. 2 or 3 orbits. U will have another spot in those Orbits.
Winning hands before showdown(River) is the best way to play Poker. Lot of smaller pots with minimum risk is better then a few big pots with huge variance.

What about this hand, I raise 3 blinds he calls with shitty 9J, gets two pairs, I get flush, I cannot and wont over bet it but still call and shove just to meet third jack. I suppose even now you would tell me my play is bad?

888Poker, $1 + $0.10 - Hold'em No Limit - 4,000/8,000 (1,000 ante) - 9 players

Cookie4646 (UTG): 68,000 (9 bb)
L00neyToon (UTG+1): 143,375 (18 bb)
lopszxc (MP): 505,023 (63 bb)
steveinkw (MP+1): 162,040 (20 bb)
Ruslan137 (LP): 145,114 (18 bb)
GlebSA (CO): 567,570 (71 bb)
Mick1974kez (BU): 244,693 (31 bb)
marko_klaus (SB): 375,012 (47 bb)
Mortis71 (BB): 86,226 (11 bb)

Pre-Flop: (21,000) Hero (L00neyToon) is UTG+1 with Q♦ A♦
1 fold, L00neyToon (UTG+1) raises to 24,000, 5 players fold, marko_klaus (SB) calls 20,000, 1 fold

Flop: (65,000) 6♦ 9♦ J♦ (2 players)
marko_klaus (SB) checks, L00neyToon (UTG+1) checks

Turn: (65,000) K♣ (2 players)
marko_klaus (SB) bets 21,450, L00neyToon (UTG+1) calls 21,450

River: (107,900) J♣ (2 players)
marko_klaus (SB) bets 103,214, L00neyToon (UTG+1) calls 96,925 (all-in)

Total pot: 301,750

Showdown:
marko_klaus (SB) shows 9♣ J♠ (a full house, Jacks full of Nines)
- Pre-Flop: 34%, Flop: 17%, Turn: 9%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (UTG+1) shows Q♦ A♦ (a flush, Ace high)
- Pre-Flop: 66%, Flop: 83%, Turn: 91%, River: 0%)

marko_klaus (SB) wins 301,750

Originally posted by LoonyToon
What about this hand, I raise 3 blinds he calls with shitty 9J, gets two pairs, I get flush, I cannot and wont over bet it but still call and shove just to meet third jack. I suppose even now you would tell me my play is bad?

Nope -- this time you played it OK and still lost. It happens.

In this case, opponent got lucky, but consider the difference in stack sizes.
In this case, he can call with any two, and still have decent stack size.

I'm curious to know what the experts think though...

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by LoonyToon
What about this hand, I raise 3 blinds he calls with shitty 9J, gets two pairs, I get flush, I cannot and wont over bet it but still call and shove just to meet third jack. I suppose even now you would tell me my play is bad?

Nope -- this time you played it OK and still lost. It happens.

In this case, opponent got lucky, but consider the difference in stack sizes.
In this case, he can call with any two, and still have decent stack size.

I'm curious to know what the experts think though...

It's just a cooler post-flop. I don't think if you had played it differenty you had a different outcome of the hand, but we don't want to make desicions based on the result of the hand.

OK, what about this?
I exactly put him on 10 small kicker. So I'm interested what's wrong with my play here.

888Poker, $0.45 + $0.05 - Hold'em No Limit - 15/30 (3 ante) - 8 players

bloodny (UTG): 2,994 (100 bb)
rikidikitavi (UTG+1): 2,994 (100 bb)
68Roni (MP): 2,994 (100 bb)
Anglosaxon33 (MP+1): 2,994 (100 bb)
SzabiH (LP): 3,816 (127 bb)
nikita2450 (CO): 2,301 (77 bb)
aspid1961 (BU): 2,949 (98 bb)
L00neyToon (BB): 2,994 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: (54) Hero (L00neyToon) is BB with A♠ T♥
5 players fold, nikita2450 (CO) calls 30, 1 fold, L00neyToon (BB) raises to 90, nikita2450 (CO) calls 60

Flop: (204) 8♦ 5♥ T♠ (2 players)
L00neyToon (BB) checks, nikita2450 (CO) bets 102, L00neyToon (BB) raises to 294, nikita2450 (CO) calls 192

Turn: (792) 7♦ (2 players)
L00neyToon (BB) checks, nikita2450 (CO) bets 396, L00neyToon (BB) raises to 2,607 (all-in), nikita2450 (CO) calls 1,518 (all-in)

River: (4,620) 3♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 4,620

Showdown:
L00neyToon (BB) shows A♠ T♥ (a pair of Tens)
(- Pre-Flop: 76%, Flop: 89%, Turn: 93%, River: 0%)

nikita2450 (CO) shows 3♣ T♦ (two pair, Tens and Threes)
- Pre-Flop: 24%, Flop: 11%, Turn: 7%, River: 100%)

nikita2450 (CO) wins 4,620

Would you fold this like I did?

888Poker, $0.45 + $0.05 - Hold'em No Limit - 125/250 (30 ante) - 9 players

MihelKim (UTG): 11,608 (46 bb)
Hastt14 (UTG+1): 1,504 (6 bb)
flairdresser (MP): 19,120 (76 bb)
spartaq7 (MP+1): 3,764 (15 bb)
valio71 (LP): 3,838 (15 bb)
Swat855 (CO): 9,732 (39 bb)
Upthetower (BU): 147 (1 bb)
L00neyToon (SB): 10,238 (41 bb)
giacomo135 (BB): 4,115 (16 bb)

Pre-Flop: (645) Hero (L00neyToon) is SB with A♠ J♥
MihelKim (UTG) raises to 750, 3 players fold, valio71 (LP) 3-bets to 3,808 (all-in), 1 fold, Upthetower (BU) calls 117 (all-in), L00neyToon (SB) folds, 1 fold, MihelKim (UTG) calls 3,058

Flop: (8,378) J♠ 8♣ Q♦ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: (8,378) 7♣ (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: (8,378) 7♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 8,378

Showdown:
valio71 (LP) shows 3♠ 3♦ (two pair, Sevens and Threes)
- Pre-Flop: 17%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

MihelKim (UTG) shows 6♣ 6♥ (two pair, Sevens and Sixes)
(- Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 47%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

Upthetower (BU) shows 7♦ T♦ (three of a kind, Sevens)
- Pre-Flop: 41%, Flop: 44%, Turn: 90%, River: 100%)

MihelKim (UTG) wins 7,523
Upthetower (BU) wins 855

Why so many suckouts on river, now I can even say "oh here comes the queen" and he will get it like I can see the beat before it comes. It seems I just cannot win a hand tonight. And in few last weeks I get this suckouts on river as nothing, every third showdown is like this

888Poker, $0.92 + $0.08 - Hold'em No Limit - 1,250/2,500 (325 ante) - 9 players

Nwamc4221 (UTG): 125,435 (50 bb)
Lordconifers (UTG+1): 154,266 (62 bb)
liviut75 (MP): 81,225 (32 bb)
Dubins05 (MP+1): 140,318 (56 bb)
L00neyToon (LP): 23,808 (10 bb)
ever441 (CO): 72,863 (29 bb)
DenPekas (BU): 72,775 (29 bb)
Dgiga14 (SB): 170,826 (68 bb)
lloydie15 (BB): 104,839 (42 bb)

Pre-Flop: (6,675) Hero (L00neyToon) is LP with A♣ J♠
Nwamc4221 (UTG) calls 2,500, 1 fold, liviut75 (MP) calls 2,500, 1 fold, L00neyToon (LP) raises to 23,483 (all-in), 4 players fold, Nwamc4221 (UTG) calls 20,983, liviut75 (MP) calls 20,983

Flop: (77,124) 8♥ 8♣ J♦ (3 players, 1 all-in)
Nwamc4221 (UTG) checks, liviut75 (MP) bets 57,417 (all-in), Nwamc4221 (UTG) folds

Turn: (77,124) 6♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (77,124) Q♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: 77,124

Showdown:
liviut75 (MP) shows Q♦ 3♥ (two pair, Queens and Eights)
(- Pre-Flop: 35%, Flop: 13%, Turn: 7%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (LP) shows A♣ J♠ (two pair, Jacks and Eights)
(- Pre-Flop: 65%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 93%, River: 0%)

liviut75 (MP) wins 77,124

Now I'm forced to think I'm bad player and this happens all the time. I don't remember when this happened to me, when i call the river for gutshut it never comes, maybe few times a year.

888Poker, $1 + $0.10 - Hold'em No Limit - 1,250/2,500 (325 ante) - 9 players

thedustystar (UTG): 33,700 (13 bb)
4uTep5 (UTG+1): 44,225 (18 bb)
WedgeC (MP): 63,488 (25 bb)
L00neyToon (MP+1): 105,386 (42 bb)
d.H.Mosquito (LP): 64,750 (26 bb)
Svenni3772 (CO): 36,383 (15 bb)
DovganR (BU): 34,936 (14 bb)
victorq60 (SB): 41,747 (17 bb)
Bulucky1 (BB): 26,525 (11 bb)

Pre-Flop: (6,675) Hero (L00neyToon) is MP+1 with A♣ K♣
1 fold, 4uTep5 (UTG+1) calls 2,500, 1 fold, L00neyToon (MP+1) raises to 10,000, 5 players fold, 4uTep5 (UTG+1) 3-bets to 43,900 (all-in), L00neyToon (MP+1) calls 33,900

Flop: (94,475) 5♥ 4♥ Q♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (94,475) 6♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (94,475) Q♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 94,475

Showdown:
4uTep5 (UTG+1) shows Q♠ K♥ (three of a kind, Queens)
( - Pre-Flop: 24%, Flop: 85%, Turn: 93%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (MP+1) shows A♣ K♣ (a pair of Queens)
( - Pre-Flop: 76%, Flop: 15%, Turn: 7%, River: 0%)

4uTep5 (UTG+1) wins 94,475

888Poker Snap, $0.91 + $0.09 - Hold'em No Limit - 150/300 (40 ante) - 9 players

mark210864 (UTG): 5,464 (18 bb)
KevCrainie67 (UTG+1): 1,561 (5 bb)
firstgold1 (MP): 3,160 (11 bb)
fifthstrno (MP+1): 6,465 (22 bb)
FrankieKidd1 (LP): 23,576 (79 bb)
L00neyToon (CO): 12,918 (43 bb)
Sindy_Nero (BU): 3,973 (13 bb)
DohHeo (SB): 12,771 (43 bb)
the_spiv (BB): 13,131 (44 bb)

Pre-Flop: (810) Hero (L00neyToon) is CO with Q♥ Q♣
mark210864 (UTG) raises to 600, 1 fold, firstgold1 (MP) calls 600, 2 players fold, L00neyToon (CO) 3-bets to 2,100, 4 players fold, firstgold1 (MP) calls 1,500

Flop: (5,610) 2♥ 3♠ 8♥ (2 players)
firstgold1 (MP) bets 1,020 (all-in), L00neyToon (CO) calls 1,020

Turn: (7,650) 8♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (7,650) 5♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 7,650

Showdown:
firstgold1 (MP) shows 9♣ 8♣ (three of a kind, Eights)
[i- Pre-Flop: 20%, Flop: 18%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (CO) shows Q♥ Q♣ (two pair, Queens and Eights)
- Pre-Flop: 80%, Flop: 82%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

firstgold1 (MP) wins 7,650

Although the bad beats, coolers and suckout are dramatic, focusing on the losses can have a devastating effect on your mental game.

The negative vibes can then have an effect on your play, leading to a vicious circle that's hard to break.

The last A♣:K♣: hand isn't badly played -- some might play it differently, but the result would likely be similar.

Best of luck :gl:,
VS

It's hard for sure. But plz keep in mind that your decision when u put all ur chips in the middle is important. After that is only luck.
Focus on your Play... of course we damn these fishes sucking out on us... but the are actually what we want.

When I had these problem and kept thinking its "my bad play" I really only started focussing on the decision when I call/shoved All-In. I even went so far that I minimized the table and did not look at the runout. My thoughts got clearer every time, since u keep pretending you bust the tourney and are then happy when the table popped up showing ur next hand and more chips in ur stack.

Keep grinding ... You Will Get There!!!

Only the ATo hand i would play differently. I would Cbet all streets. Now you are playing it really tricky and that's not nessessary against weaker villains. If villain was a thinking player you could even lose value with the check/raise twice on flop and turn. It looks really strong.

888Poker Snap, $0.91 + $0.09 - Hold'em No Limit - 60/120 (12 ante) - 9 players

rojo1987 (UTG): 2,636 (22 bb)
meagagin (UTG+1): 23,002 (192 bb)
Dannizzzz (MP): 13,087 (109 bb)
JT.Rourke (MP+1): 3,389 (28 bb)
asteri777 (LP): 5,188 (43 bb)
Conorsdad (CO): 11,882 (99 bb)
L00neyToon (BU): 6,000 (50 bb)
JacksonOrteg (SB): 3,060 (26 bb)
HAL1963 (BB): 10,419 (87 bb)

Pre-Flop: (288) Hero (L00neyToon) is BTN with 8♣ Q♣
3 players fold, JT.Rourke (MP+1) calls 120, 2 players fold, L00neyToon (BU) calls 120, 1 fold, HAL1963 (BB) checks

Flop: (528) T♣ 5♣ 7♣ (3 players)
HAL1963 (BB) checks, JT.Rourke (MP+1) checks, L00neyToon (BU) bets 360, HAL1963 (BB) folds, JT.Rourke (MP+1) calls 360

Turn: (1,248) 7♦ (2 players)
JT.Rourke (MP+1) checks, L00neyToon (BU) checks

River: (1,248) A♣ (2 players)
JT.Rourke (MP+1) bets 2,897 (all-in), L00neyToon (BU) calls 2,897

Total pot: 7,042

Showdown:
JT.Rourke (MP+1) shows K♣ J♣ (a flush, Ace high - higher flush)
(- Pre-Flop: 66%, Flop: >99%, Turn: 100%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (BU) shows 8♣ Q♣ (a flush, Ace high)
- Pre-Flop: 34%, Flop: <1%, Turn: 0%, River: 0%)

JT.Rourke (MP+1) wins 7,042

Seems impossible =(

What do you think about this kind of play?
Thanks.

888Poker, $0.92 + $0.08 - Hold'em No Limit - 20/40 (4 ante) - 9 players

Brooks888 (UTG): 3,484 (87 bb)
Nokles23 (UTG+1): 2,923 (73 bb)
Sylo666 (MP): 5,238 (131 bb)
marcotbom (MP+1): 3,344 (84 bb)
Raoule18 (LP): 2,339 (58 bb)
Vidic1402 (CO): 2,930 (73 bb)
UNM777 (BU): 610 (15 bb)
L00neyToon (SB): 2,883 (72 bb)
BRVirus (BB): 2,986 (75 bb)

Pre-Flop: (96) Hero (L00neyToon) is SB with 6♦ 6♥
2 players fold, Sylo666 (MP) calls 40, 1 fold, Raoule18 (LP) calls 40, Vidic1402 (CO) calls 40, 1 fold, L00neyToon (SB) calls 20, BRVirus (BB) checks

Flop: (236) 6♠ K♥ 5♥ (5 players)
L00neyToon (SB) checks, BRVirus (BB) checks, Sylo666 (MP) bets 118, Raoule18 (LP) calls 118, Vidic1402 (CO) calls 118, L00neyToon (SB) raises to 236, BRVirus (BB) folds, Sylo666 (MP) calls 118, Raoule18 (LP) calls 118, Vidic1402 (CO) calls 118

Turn: (1,180) 7♠ (4 players)
L00neyToon (SB) bets 778, Sylo666 (MP) calls 778, Raoule18 (LP) calls 778, Vidic1402 (CO) folds

River: (3,514) J♣ (3 players)
L00neyToon (SB) bets 1,825 (all-in), Sylo666 (MP) calls 1,825, Raoule18 (LP) folds

Total pot: 7,164

Showdown:
L00neyToon (SB) shows 6♦ 6♥ (three of a kind, Sixes)
- Pre-Flop: 56%, Flop: 95%, Turn: 82%, River: 100%)

Sylo666 (MP) shows K♠ 8♣ (a pair of Kings)
(- Pre-Flop: 44%, Flop: 5%, Turn: 18%, River: 0%)

L00neyToon (SB) wins 7,164

Uh guys ... always before money ... I'm losing my bankroll even with managment, somehow they always get me to the bubble which is even more fucked up cause I lose my time on nothing, it's like some force prevents me to be player who will win.

888Poker, $0.92 + $0.08 - Hold'em No Limit - 600/1,200 (150 ante) - 9 players

ziozik28 (UTG): 9,170 (8 bb)
Wildpablo (UTG+1): 31,571 (26 bb)
LuckyStanis (MP): 17,645 (15 bb)
Mallard69 (MP+1): 72,191 (60 bb)
burritolance (LP): 12,808 (11 bb)
amputater (CO): 30,910 (26 bb)
L00neyToon (BU): 15,585 (13 bb)
leafan1 (SB): 4,174 (3 bb)
MathanMor (BB): 19,513 (16 bb)

Pre-Flop: (3,150) Hero (L00neyToon) is BTN with K♦ J♣
5 players fold, amputater (CO) raises to 2,400, L00neyToon (BU) calls 2,400, 1 fold, MathanMor (BB) calls 1,200

Flop: (9,150) T♠ A♣ Q♦ (3 players)
MathanMor (BB) checks, amputater (CO) checks, L00neyToon (BU) checks

Turn: (9,150) A♠ (3 players)
MathanMor (BB) bets 4,575, amputater (CO) folds, L00neyToon (BU) raises to 9,150, MathanMor (BB) raises to 14,925, L00neyToon (BU) calls 3,885 (all-in)

River: (35,220) Q♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: 35,220

Showdown:
MathanMor (BB) shows J♦ A♦ (a full house, Aces full of Queens)
- Pre-Flop: 75%, Flop: 13%, Turn: 24%, River: 100%)

L00neyToon (BU) shows K♦ J♣ (a straight, Ten to Ace)
- Pre-Flop: 25%, Flop: 87%, Turn: 76%, River: 0%)

MathanMor (BB) wins 35,220