Calling all in with straight draw against two players.

Hi Jafreiteris
I'm moving this to the hand discussion board.
It will get a better response there.

My opinion is that we need more information.
 KJo or KJs
 information on MP and CO tendencies would be helpful

Do you have Equilab?
If not, download it and play with some likely ranges for those two opponents to see where you hand.

Arguments could be made for either.
My first thought was "if you're going to call a shove, then shove yourself" Better to be the shover than the shovee

No particular info on both players, there was no flush draw nor did i had suited cards. If i had straight+flush draw i think it was no brainer. Also push was not and option because there was all in already. If i was against single player that would be easy fold.

BUT now there is two players = bigger pot. I am not used to play multiway all in pots with draws. As i explained, my option was to call about 21 eur with 28% eq to win ~53eur or fold.

Originally posted by Jafreiteris
Flop QT4 rainbow, original pf raizer c bets, cut off min reraizes, to 2,5

probably fold here, because of exactly what happened

Don't argue there.

Originally posted by Jafreiteris
BUT now there is two players = bigger pot. I am not used to play multiway all in pots with draws. As i explained, my option was to call about 21 eur with 28% eq to win ~53eur or fold.

When it comes to all-ins you cannot think about pot odds anymore, but more about your equity. And the logic with equity is reverse to what you wrote: you should be less inclined to call all-in when there are multiple opponents already all-in. In your case you would have roughly 30% equity (chance to win) against one opponent's range on flop, but when there are two of them it drops to 10% or less. Always fold, unless you have a made hand of two pairs or better, OK?

Thats what i wanted to know. And how about straight flush draws? It have more eq, but its not made hand.

Simple math problem. As you said 21€ behind and pot is 53€ before call. Formula for solving required equity is call/(pot + call) *100. So in this case 21/(53+21) *100 = 28.4%

So assuming equity percents you wrote are correct it would have been roughly breakeven to call. At least without rake making it bit worse.

As always it's about equity versus ranges you have to think about. In this example when we get that much action with big stack to pot ratio it actually tend to play in favour of draw. Because villains ranges are weighted toward very strong hands like sets or two pair. Not hands that would block our outs like AT or AA.

E.g. is it better to be versus 44 in HU pot or 44 and QT in 3way pot? Well obviously later as we get better pot odds but also villains hands block their outs. So if we make straight it's less likely board also pairs.

So what SamoB25 said is not quite as black and white. Of course if opponents show up with AA or another oesd with that line then our equity with draw can dramatically decrease.

In general aim to have draw with nut potential if you end up thinking about all-in on flop multiway. E.g. nut flush draw will often have decent equity in such spot. But if you have weaker flush draw and you run versus bigger flush draw and made hand you can be drawing dead or very thin. That also apply to combo draws. E.g. if you have 7♥:8♥: on 6♥:5♥:J♠: flop and someone has bigger flush draw and other guy set then there are only 8 outs anymore with lot of cards that make your straight outs dead. But if your assumption is that both villains very likely have made hands and your outs are alive most of time then that hand would become very profitable stack off. E.g. if in above example we run into JJ and 66 our equity would be 44.6% but if we run into JJ and A♥:2♥: it will be 26%. In that example A♥:2♥: would be clear underdog though