Omaha clicking, Project 2026

Originally posted by ghaleon
Well on turn hitting nuts and villain pot.

How often does that result in a split pot?

It seems that it happens way too often to me -- especially in Hi/Lo when I have the hi nuts and there is no low, then opponent also has it.

So I thought to play PLO25 as I get a** r***d on plo50 all the time. But now I lost 11 bins in plo25 as well. When I lost this one versus vpip zillion whale in 4bet pot I thought to end session.

Managed to think that "oh nice turn!" and then reality smacked my face again.

Not sure if I will play today more. Not really feeling like it.

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by ghaleon
Well on turn hitting nuts and villain pot.

How often does that result in a split pot?

It seems that it happens way too often to me -- especially in Hi/Lo when I have the hi nuts and there is no low, then opponent also has it.

Not sure what hand you referred but yeah especially if board nuts change then pot size tend to be very polarising.

Ok best to believe that this day is cursed for me. Close to 500€ down today mainly in plo25 so thats enough I suppose. Played third one hour session and in that got these:

I dont know this just feels absurd how cold I have run for a while. Hopefully turns around soon.

you need to find a game where you winrate is very high, like where you have huge edge. then the variance is smaller and you are confident that you beat the game. from time to time you can test yourself vs tougher opposition as well, but I think it is good to have a main game where you have very high winrate vs the opponents. this way the swings are minimal. and then if you lose a bit vs the tougher guys you play for practice/learning, you still have this confident main game to always rely on.

for example, I usually don't play aggressive bad regulars heads-up. but sometimes when I want to learn more and I am in the mood of learning, I play them, trying to gain an edge, learn how to read them and so on. but I always still have the fish pool where my winrate is quite high.

maybe you can take like plo10 vs big fish as a confident big pool main game. it is not bad, it is also educational to learn how to read the fish and master skills vs them, such as bluffing, max value, fold equity. and with that solid good feeling main game, you can easily still fight the tougher high-variance plo25+ when you feel like.

this is just my own ideas what I do myself in Holdem. I kind of need this safe area where I always have good winrate. if you always risk a lot in swingy games, it can be difficult to get a good mood and so on...

I think winrate is pretty high as I do get into very profitable spots. It just doesn't help too much if opponents outflop after bad preflop play or win often with less than 30% equity postflop. It's just nasty side of variance.

One option to decrease variance might be to sit out with e.g. 200bb stack and come back with 100bb.

yes was just thinking what is good for confidence as well... so that you don't get bad feelings and scared money etc. of course you can continue as high as you feel like. I remember once when my first bankroll ever dropped from $2k to $1400 or something when I was quite a beginner, I hired a coach and payed him $80/hr for like two hours. this helped me a lot and gave me a huge boost, I started winning constantly, 5k in a row, even up to $10k+.

then I made some fun travels in life and was in India for 5 months... and only now, 7 years later with two kids I came back to pro poker again... in Estonia you don't need much money for living...

Originally posted by ghaleon
One option to decrease variance might be to sit out with e.g. 200bb stack and come back with 100bb.

Although it shouldn't matter, it seems to me that fold equity increases when you have a large stack relative to the other players.

Do you notice this also?

Yesterday won around 5 bins in PLO25. Few interesting spots:

Table had played pretty passive preflop. I call QQ74ds in position and both blinds call. Flop top set on very drawy board and dont have any backup plus I block my own full house outs. So especially being 300bb deep with CO I thought just calling is nice here. If either blinds happen to x-r I can then come over the top to get ton of money in. Though getting raised is very unlikely.

Turn pairs the board so I didnt see much need for raising as hands that continue versus it are likely betting river pretty high frequency anyway. Villain check river and went for pot bet trying to get max in case he has weaker full house or decided to hero call straight etc.

Game #1574244973: Table €25 PL - 0.10/0.25 - Pot Limit Omaha - 02:20:01 2021/10/23
Seated players
Seat 1: Vikusa (€83.66)
Seat 2: tunderlala4 (€25.32)
Seat 3: meronok (€62.55)
Seat 4: nemma (€106.93)
Blinds and button
Vikusa has the button
tunderlala4 posts small blind €0.10
meronok posts big blind €0.25
Hole cards
Dealt to Vikusa 4♠:Q♠:7♥:Q♥:
Preflop
nemma raises €0.70 to €0.70
Vikusa calls €0.70
tunderlala4 calls €0.60
meronok calls €0.45
Flop 8♣:7♦:Q♣:
tunderlala4 checks
meronok checks
nemma bets €2.10
Vikusa calls €2.10
tunderlala4 folds
meronok folds
Turn 8♥:
nemma bets €5.25
Vikusa calls €5.25
River 9♠:
nemma checks
Vikusa bets €17.50
nemma folds

This one somewhat screwed my daily result to lot worse. I was first planning to just call BB 3bet because of how deep stacked we are but then these limpers both call it. At that point 4bet is only real option. Hit ok and SPR 1 no way of folding. Unfortunately BB with his absurd 3bet range has hit three pairs and third player blocks some of my outs. Still had 33% equity to win whole pot.

Game #1574096729: Table €25 PL - 0.10/0.25 - Pot Limit Omaha - 20:10:06 2021/10/22
Seated players
Seat 1: Jasepp (€82.98)
Seat 2: 5amba (€47.75)
Seat 4: 813NAKKK417 (€102.03)
Seat 5: Costincrc14 (€50.90)
Seat 6: masfenju52kk (€13.87)
Blinds and button
Jasepp has the button
5amba posts small blind €0.10
813NAKKK417 posts big blind €0.25
Hole cards
Dealt to Jasepp A♦:8♥:7♦:A♣:
Preflop
Costincrc14 calls €0.25
masfenju52kk calls €0.25
Jasepp raises €1.35 to €1.35
5amba folds
813NAKKK417 raises €4.40 to €4.65
Costincrc14 calls €4.40
masfenju52kk calls €4.40
Jasepp raises €22 to €23.35
813NAKKK417 calls €18.70
Costincrc14 folds
masfenju52kk calls €9.22, and is all-in
Flop 4♥:6♥:9♠:
813NAKKK417 bets €65.32
Jasepp calls €59.63, and is all-in
Uncalled bet returned to 813NAKKK417: €5.69
Showdown
Turn 3♣:
River [2♥:
Jasepp shows A♦:8♥:7♦:A♣:], A Pair of Aces
813NAKKK417 shows 7♣:9♣:6♦:4♦:, Two pairs, Nines up
masfenju52kk shows 5♠:Q♠:Q♦:A♥:, A Straight
masfenju52kk wins main pot, €44.97
813NAKKK417 wins side pot #1, €137.11

Here BU and SB limp and went for raise. Flop is pretty nice with nfd and top pair and went for cbet. Both call and turn while giving me top 2 pairs also make very possible T8 straight possible. So decided to check and see what happens. If BU shove and SB iso shove I can fold imo. BU shove, SB call and I thought SB wont have straight on this drawy board most of time just calling so went for x-shove. Got it in with 64% equity 3way so not bad.

Game #1574006312: Table €25 PL - 0.10/0.25 - Pot Limit Omaha - 17:58:46 2021/10/22
Seated players
Seat 1: iddqd66 (€25.76)
Seat 2: BaleronJam (€9.22)
Seat 3: Vendetta9mm (€27.10)
Seat 4: Jasepp (€55.29)
Seat 5: 813NAKKK417 (€132.64) (sitting out)
Seat 6: Minthon19 (€29.30)
Blinds and button
BaleronJam has the button
Vendetta9mm posts small blind €0.10
Jasepp posts big blind €0.25
Hole cards
Dealt to Jasepp A♦:J♥:9♦:Q♠:
Preflop
Minthon19 folds
iddqd66 folds
BaleronJam calls €0.25
Vendetta9mm calls €0.15
Jasepp raises €0.75 to €1
BaleronJam calls €0.75
Vendetta9mm calls €0.75
Flop 9♥:7♦:4♦:
Vendetta9mm checks
Jasepp bets €2.25
BaleronJam calls €2.25
Vendetta9mm calls €2.25
Turn J♠:
Vendetta9mm checks
Jasepp checks
BaleronJam bets €5.97, and is all-in
Vendetta9mm calls €5.97
Jasepp raises €33.63 to €33.63
Vendetta9mm calls €17.88, and is all-in
Uncalled bet returned to Jasepp: €9.78
Showdown
River 3♠:
BaleronJam shows 7♣:J♦:T♣:5♦:, Two pairs, Jacks up
Vendetta9mm shows 8♥:6♠:3♦:5♠:, A Straight
Jasepp shows A♦:J♥:9♦:Q♠:, Two pairs, Jacks up
Vendetta9mm wins main pot, €26.83
Vendetta9mm wins side pot #1, €34.69

Have made around 500€ profit in last few days in plo25 mostly. Some interesting hands I could post at some point.

I stumbled upon short stack strategy on mastermind content and I think it could actually be very effective on these games I play. Mainly because ton of people open too wide and cold call even more absurd ways. That will then open some very profitable squeeze situation with e.g. 50bb stack as SPR will be so small (multiway 1 or even less) that big portion of range can profitably stack off often. Issue with 100+bb stack tends to be that you still need reasonable connection to board multiway when SPR is often two or more.

Variance should also be lot smaller this way which at least currently I would not mind at all. Plus player pool is not going to adjust probably almost at all so it's lot easier to go for some lighter 4bets versus splashy maniac types than with deep stacks.

That said I have not yet played single hand with 50bb strategy so let's see what happens

Tested out trying 50bb start stack. Need lot of repeating to get better feel for the ranges as expected. Also Unibet seems to have some time limit or something before you can come back to same table at least with smaller stack. Not sure how exactly that works. Some 70€ profit in the end.

Do we prefer hands with more raw equity at 50 BBs?

Originally posted by Axif1
Do we prefer hands with more raw equity at 50 BBs?

Yeah high card value goes up and medium/low rundowns value goes down. Also lot of single paired hands that would be marginal raise-call preflop with 100bb are just open folded if they dont have A blocker as they mostly cannot call 3bets with less implied odds. They are still mainly fold with A but having it make 3bets less likely.

In short stack strategy there is this kind of interesting betting strategy that is recommended in mastermind. So we simplify it to only one sizing with 1/3 pot cbet in HU pot. Well at least in position. Perhaps bigger OOP. Idea is that even with this size we do create possibility to pot turn and shove river to leverage whole stack (50bb). Small size allow wider cbet frequency and could indeed be very effective. Idea is also that as people are likely fast playing flop with too many strong hands so the further barrels can be very effective versus too capped ranges. Well have to see how does it work in practice.

Studied mastermind content quite few hours today and played around with plotrainer. One month almost full and probably won't renew it right away.

Played on mobile few hands of plo25 and this one was nice to end short session:

Well I think his postflop line might actually be pretty reasonable. 2 is slight blocker and he doesn't block hearts. Both 2 and 8 can also be out. 8 obviously very often.

Played bit more plo50 and again got totally screwed with over 300€ down. Really really good tables but when these just happen versus players playing totally absurd preflop ranges...:

Villain was 3betting practically all double suited combos preflop. Not thrilled to raise-call pre but still some connectivity. Raise-called on flop. 66% equity on flop.

This table as whole was total joke. Defended BB after MP open, BU call and SB call. X-c flop as it was 4way pot and MP pot cbet which was not his normal size. So thought that JJ, Jxxx+fd or overpair+fd is likely. So dont want to raise into very strong looking range.

Turn went for x-r as this guy was likely to continue aggression with most of his range. Versus more reasonable opponent donk bet would likely be better. Got almost allin versus his half pot turn barrel and 9€ behind which I sigh shoved thinking villain likely have JJ but obviously I cannot give up my hand. 82.5% equity on turn.

This one I probably screwed somewhat. 3bet CO open, x-c flop and donk shove turn SPR 1. Solver would just pot and stack off which make sense to me. I was kind of thinking about possibly keeping pot smaller and when villain potted thought hand is bit too strong to fold. Called to see safe sort of card to shove but I think this sort of "equity shift" play is more about on some flush draw flops. Well end result would have been same with potting though.

Here 3bet versus BU open, BB cold call and BU call. Cbet pot on flop in SPR 2 and this time BU with 80% vpip shows up with nasty combo. Had 30% equity on flop.

Same "joke table" and perhaps too wide flop stack off. BU open, SB call, I squeeze and get two calls. Flop SB donk bet pot and I was kind of skeptical about him having set or straight donk potting rainbow board. Maybe two pairs somewhat reasonable. Shoved over and had some 64% equity or so this time. Of course issue is BU might have hit also and my hand only has bit of bd support with AA. But yeah when you see hand like that calling open raise and 3bet...

This one I open SB, call BB 3bet. This point I had vibe villain is pretty loose and aggro but was early part of session. X-c flop and x-r turn SPR 1.7 or so. I doubt I can really do much else.

Then there was like many many hands where I 3bet this above guy and flop comes paired. Almost always he either call/raise cbet, bets versus check and if I check turn after cbetting he pots turn. Problem was I only had at best overpair and often with bd fd which never turned fd on turn. When I went for x-c line river basically always completed flop fd and I had to fold. Well no idea maybe he just hit most of time as he was hitting also absurd frequency into trips or flushes.

Cant find that one hand where I 4bet some mediocre KKxx versus that maniac villain. Flop came KT9r and I had gutshot and bd fd also with SPR 1 so went for check out of position. Villain shove like J965 or something and Q comes for split pot. So villain had 4 split out and few percent equity from bd fd of his own.

Well lets post my only over 200bb pot won on those plo50 tables also. Raise-call from BU and shove over cbet on flop. 58% holded this time. But yeah this is also good example of his 3betting. This hand he holds is like -0.73bb defend (so -1bb if folding) as call versus BU open in gto and KQ53ds should never be 3bet.

heads-up people are quite loose sometimes, they want to win and bluff you so they sometimes 3bet quite wide heads-up. which makes it difficult to play, cause you never know what they have. as one dc coach once said about maniacs in flhu: "they do many things right (they play aggressively, they are unpredictable on purpose...)." cause one of the main mistakes some people make hu is that they fold too much preflop and on flop. i remember years ago i played flhu on 888 and you cant believe, one guy played like 20/15 vpip pfr vs me... you just take the money then lol

Yeah maniacs are kind of tricky opponents. Best way to adjust imo is to first tighten RFI ranges. If I have really loose 3bet type behind I basically stop open raising any hand that cant continue versus 3bet. Especially if they also flat often because at these stakes rake will eat quite a bit from profit when we almost never get blinds stolen. Also especially 100bb or shorter especially I start to 4bet more equity high holdings like big pockets and some good A high ds rundowns. Weaker hands than that dont really push any preflop equity edge and if you cant expect much fold equity then it just wont make much sense.

This hand was moment ago in plo50 table where I were shortstacking. I think this shows how much value there is at least EV wise. So again I am in SB even though replayer show me as BU. CO open, I 3bet from SB, BB cold call and CO call. I were actually 3bet-folding this as 4bet ranges are way more AAxx heavy than solver assumes. In solver this would be 50bb deep like breakeven spot to go allin versus 4 bet. Though then again if BB cold call as happened here it would perhaps make this spot unfoldable.

So BB in his great wisdom decides to cold call 3bet from 56bb player with 8754ss. Issues in this play are numerous:

1: Hand could be way way better in its class. E.g. no gap or ds. Also low suits in multiway 3bet pots drop value quite a bit.
2: He doesnt close action so if CO 4bets... Get it in I suppose for bit over 100bb.
3: He will be in awkward spot on flop as CO will overcall in position almost always. In reality at least.
4: Plus price is obviously bad

Especially number 3 creates awkward spots (at least if villain would care and wouldnt just gamble) as SPR for me as shortstack will be bit over 1. So my already tight range is going to be willing to shove flop lot of time even versus two opponents. When he faces my shove he is kind of committed in this hand on flop as he potentially has enough equity. But he has no idea what CO is planning to do.

What happened here was I pot, BB iso shove, CO calls and we get into 3way allin.

Out of curiosity checked equities in this three way pot and if CO folds and I am versus BB only.

But yeah in this hand BB was close to 400bb deep and CO only bit over 100bb deep. When you think about flop situation from BB view if CO was also very deep we will get into very tough scenario. More common situation for this would or at least should be if e.g. CO open, BU call and short stack 3bet from blinds and it goes 3way to flop. Theory wise BB should probably not really cold call ever in this spot.