[Closed] flush draw multiway pot

ofcourse, bet the river. You called all the way to river. Just donk it out. Many times villan will think that you bluff.

thats just my opinion, and it could be different from other ppl!

I'm not sure I like the pf call with such a marginal hand, but you get great odds so it is definately not a big flaw to call it and see the flop.

Flop: wp, you get the odds to call
Turn: You don't have the odds to call anymore, but adding a little implied odds make up for that so it's an okay call especially since you aren't among the short players at the table. Would have called it too myself!
River: Donk out, just a small valuebet like ~½pot (or maybe even less) will probably be the most profitable in the long run, since he most likely won't call off too much chips with the flush completing unless he has hit something and the money will of course come to the middle somehow if thats the case

Originally posted by Mugge88
Turn: You don't have the odds to call anymore

If pot odds are slightly more than 4:1 without implied odds and our odds are 4:1 isn't this an easy call?

Nice hand. The third club could be a scare card for villain, so c/r is probably less likely to work.

calling pre is ok. hitting the J high flush is usually good.

you can only call these hands if you can get away from a Jxx flop because your pair is going to be very weak.

fold turn: you arent getting the correct pot odds to continue with the hand.

as played: value-bet river

I fold pre.

Otherwise what <3 said. Not enough callers in front of us for us to complete with total trash like J6s

Originally posted by Zukes

If pot odds are slightly more than 4:1 without implied odds and our odds are 4:1 isn't this an easy call?

You only hit your flush ~1/5 from turn to river

Doesn't 1/5 = 4:1??? I'm confused. What am I missing???
47 unknown cards: 38 that don't help and 9 outs.
--> 1 card out of the TOTAL 5 cards help us
--> 4 times as many bad cards as good cards = odds of 4:1.
The odds and outs chart from the strategy article says 4:1 too, so I'm sorry if there's something I'm forgetting here, but I just don't get it?

I fold pre too.
The problem with your calculations Zukes is that its cash-game-logic. You're making a roughly EV neutral call in cash game terms, because you do kinda have odds to call for your flushdraw on the river. However in a SnG the ICM means that chips lost > chips gained, so your $EV becomes much worse here. I think thats what the judges / other players are getting at re: your maths.

As played, I never check OOP with the nuts on the river. EVER. You can minbet or something retarded like that if you think he's super aggro, just don't check.

you are right zukes, we are getting exactly 4:1 which is what we need to call to make it a +cEV call.

but you have to consider that a chip gained it worth less than a chip lost in a SnG. so its going to be a BE call on the turn assuming your J high flush will be good when it hits (which wont always be the case).

the turn call is probably break even chip wise.

Ok. Thank you! I was nearly freaking out there thinking I'd been calculating odds incorrectly in all my games. That cash game v sng analysis is helpful. I hadn't really considered the ICM factor when chasing draws this early in the game. I just assumed in this situation that given our deep stack and the chance of taking villain's whole stack and getting a knockout on the river, calling on the turn is such a sweet opportunity. Is that an ok line of thought to have in this particular situation or should I be changing my thought process and approaching draws more conservatively at all stages of the sng?

its an ok line with nut draws against fish that will pay you off a lot (you have a lot more implied odds)

but with medium draws like J high flushes, you also have reverse implied to consider.

you should be more conservative with calling draws in a SnG compared to a cash game because of the ICM tax (value of chip does not equal value of $ in SnG).

and in the mid-blinds when teh value of the call becomes a larger proportion of your stack you need to lean towards folding more often.