why don't you start out by explaining what you mean when you say "fate"
Notifications
Clear all
nothing is predetermined, but you don't have any control on life or in a poker hand; the nature choose for you.
Originally posted by superamico
nothing is predetermined, but you don't have any control on life or in a poker hand; the nature choose for you.
If nature decides everything then does this not imply that things are predetermined
If you have no control over anything then does this not imply that things are predetermined
Personally I think some things in life are predetermined to an extent but we can still affect most aspects of our lives through hard work, tenacity and a will to succeed
OMG, new theory of poker?
If our bad beats are predetermined, we could overcome them sooo.... we should all fold AA preflop from the BTN!
TY grailer i never thought of it this way!
PS. PM me please, do you offer private coachings? (i guessing so) what do you charge per hour?
If nature decides everything then does this not imply that things are predetermined If you have no control over anything then does this not imply that things are predetermined
becouse the nature are random, like an electron, thus you cant predict anything.
the electron can control you, but you cant control the elctron 
Well you can predict how many times AA might win over 1 million hands.
So therefore why cant you predict movements of an electron?
It would just require more complex mathematics
It should be possible to predict what someone is thinking based upon information on there past thoughts etc .
You just need the all the information to beable to make a prediction which is what some players do in poker , they will try and predict the outcome based on information from past hands .
However , in Fate poker , the past doesnt matter because the future has already been written .
Thus results do not matter .
and if you still are not convinced , how did this happen ?
Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:
$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (3 handed)
Known players:
[tg]BU$2.35:///////;SB (Hero)$0.85:///////;BB$2.92:///////;[/tg]
Preflop: Hero is SB with A:d, 5:d.
BU raises to $0.06, Hero calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04.
Flop: ($0.18) 3:c, 2:s, 5:s (3 players)
Hero bets $0.13, BB folds, BU raises to $0.28, Hero raises to $0.79, BU calls $0.51.
Turn: ($1.76) T:c (2 players)
River: ($1.76) T:d (2 players)
Final Pot: $1.76.
Results follow:
Hero shows two pairs, tens and fives(A:d 5:d).
BU shows two pairs, tens and fives(5:c 6:c).
Hero wins with two pairs, tens and fives(A:d 5:d).
Originally posted by superamico
becouse the nature are random, like an electron, thus you cant predict anything.
the electron can control you, but you cant control the elctronOriginally posted by Grailer
So therefore why cant you predict movements of an electron?You CAN predict the behaviour of an electron in the same way that you can predict the outcome of a poker hand. You can predict an Expected Value, you can predict what the likely variance from the norm will be. This does not mean that the electron will always move this way or that AA will always beat 72o.
What you can't predict is how irrelevant to anything the hands are that you post Grailer
Originally posted by Grailer
If someone makes a bad call because they are bad players but win , why did they make this bad call that just so happened to allow them to win ? Fate ? Luck ?
I had a really good reply trying to support you and your views here because I've recently been watching a well known video series focussing on zen and poker. But I'm afraid you've missed the mark slightly here. Poker is a game of making the right decisions. Sometimes you're going to get KK v AA, or AA v pockets etc and it'll be a "bad call" because you're getting your money in while your behind. But who, realistically, is going to fold in some of these spots? I've had aces lose to sets of pockets many times and I don't feel bad about getting my money in. The only predetermined thing was that when I got those aces, the money was going in.
Therefore , it doesnt matter what you do , if you were not going to win , you cannot win thus accept the fact that you probably have already lost before you even see the final card come.
Well, yes. But I don't see what relevance that has . If you're playing properly, you're playing in the present. Since the knowledge of the order in the deck is hidden from us, it's as good as being random.
I don't really understand the relevance of the hand histories 
This topic has the potential to be good if you explore it rationally as it can be a great mindset to avoid going off on tilt and just accepting what has happened then letting go of bad beats.
But if you're going to be using the powers of the force to ask fate if your pocket aces or kings are good and considering folding them pre-flop, I think I speak for many when I say: Please sit at my table
- Steve
all the way from the dutch community to post my reply here:
cause and effect.
oh and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory
When you talk about fate, perhaps you are talking about the good fate, or perhaps the good faith.
Lets try to think about a dog that sees a electroni.....If the other dogs see the electroni too, is it fate, is it faith?
Originally posted by snafusan
Well, yes. But I don't see what relevance that has . If you're playing properly, you're playing in the present. Since the knowledge of the order in the deck is hidden from us, it's as good as being random.
- Steve
Basically we are all just playing from past experiances ( well anyone who is good ) our decisions are based upon what we have learnt from the past .
So every decision you make can be predicted if someone knew exactly how you played every hand you ever played.
That is unless you have some chaotic stratergy which is impossible to humans or bots to read.
However if Fate has already decided the outcome since the deck is hidden to us it appears to us to be random even tho it is not random at all.
If we apply this to poker every hand is predetermined ( which is true since the deck once shuffled if everyone played the hand to river and we could see the cards in the deck we would know who is going to win )
I totally agree with this one and want to add, that some more things might besaid:
If you had all possible information about your opponents (past experiences, learning, his information about you, his current state of concentration) you would be able to comletely predict his behaviour with the cards dealt. Therefore, if you had the complete information about board and opponent you would know ahead who will be winning. Also, if you had all information about all coming games, you would be able to tell everyones exact bankroll after 1000 games, and give us all statistics regarding that. In other words: You have all information on the microscopic level.
Only problem: you "rarely" have the information. So the only thing you can do is gaining as many macroscopic variables(such as his play of a hand and his betting structure and your reads on him) as possible. Then, you can do statistics, i.e. calculating in how many cases you will win, based on your assumed macroscopic variables. If the result differs from your calculation, you can call it "luck", if someone personally is affected by it you can also call it"good/bad luck" , and if the result differs quite often from your calculation you can call it "variance". You can also calculate how probable it is that your calculations were wrong. But you will never ever be able to draw conclusions aobut the microscopic level.
To sum it up: I think everything is predetermined, but you wil never be able to gain the neccessary information to fully predict it. The best way you can predict is using statistics on the information you have. Here I made the assumption, that there is no free will, or at least that your opponents don't have sufficient free will to render the information inacurrate.
We blame bad beats on luck , but what if it was fate that dealt us these bad beats and not luck ?
luck cannot deal you cards, nor can it give you information about your opponents or the deck, because luck is the description of an outcome, not of a cause. There is no rationalist way in blaming bad beats on luck. Therefore, you cannot say"he won because he was lucky", but you can say"he was lucky because he won against his odds"
So I would say it was fate, it had to happen in this single event.
If someone makes a bad call because they are bad players but win , why did they make this bad call that just so happened to allow them to win ? Fate ? Luck ?
maybe it is because they are bad players? They din't have the whole information, neither, and their calculations were quite wrong. So they made a bad call AND "were lucky" ("A AND B" does not mean B happened because of A). If they do it some more times, it might turn into variance, if they do it a lot of more times they might be able to see that their "calculations" were wrong and correct the mistake. Until then you can exploit it.
Therefore , it doesnt matter what you do , if you were not going to win , you cannot win thus accept the fact that you probably have already lost before you even see the final card come.
There is some truth in it. It implies, that, because you don't know your fate in this single hand, you should always play according to your calculations, independent of the outcome of a single act.
About the possibility of fate being biased: should be clear from my argumentation that i don't think so:) But to have a proof of it: Roll a dice 1 million times, and declare a "6" as a winning situation. You will see that there is no luck influencing the outcome. You could also ask others to make this easy test on their luck, but maybe, just maybe they regard it as a waste of time;) oh yeah, one more word about wasting time, I succesfully wasted quite a lot of time instead of learning, so thanks for opening this thread:D
now please post another nl2 hand. it's been almost 10 posts now since the last one. fans that F5 this thread 100+ times / minute need it
Am i the only one amazed and the stubbornness of Grailer? And how he keeps playing despite all the hateful comments? How he is so convinced of his ability that he's not willing to listen or learn ?
I think you need to listen to this Grailer..
http://www.pokerroad.com/radio/tips-from-the-bear/27
Are you posting this from a mental hospital?!?!
At first I thought you were joking, but really dude try some other meds, those just don't work!!!
It was my fate to write this, don't be mad at me.
Originally posted by Grailer
Basically we are all just playing from past experiances ( well anyone who is good )
nope