[Closed] $1_QQ postflop

Hey mate,
When making your cbet, try to think about:
1. which hands you want to fold
2. which hands you want to call
3. which turn cards you don't want to see.
4. what do we do if he check/raises us
5. pot size for later streets

Do numbers 1 and 2 match up with the hands that will ACTUALLY call, and those that will ACTUALLY fold? Are there a lot of bad turn cards for our hand, or do we not need to worry that much about protection? Generally 3 ties in with 2 in the sense that you want draws to call you but you don't want them to hit their draws

So what to do on this flop? What hands do you see calling here? Maybe some smaller pairs, but I think 22 - 55 will fold their bottom pair here. So you're maybe getting called by 88 - JJ which you beat. You're getting called by Kx always and 66 or 77 sets obviously. You might occasionally get called by an Ax hand, which would be weird but i've seen it happen. An overwhelming part of his calling range is going to be Kx hands which will never fold this flop. Which is bad, because we have very little equity against those, and heaps of equity against the smaller pairs who will sometimes fold.

What do you do if he check raises? You have a very good hand. Not the nuts, but 2nd pair definitely has showdown value. You are quite vulnerable to being check/raisebluffed off the best hand by some spewy fish, unless you're happy getting your whole stack in here with 2nd pair which would definitely be overvaluing your hand.

Pot size for later streets? Well, we aren't necessarily trying to get all our chips in the middle when any Kx crushes us. Therefore we don't need to build the pot. In fact keeping it small is good, because it makes it cheaper for us on later streets to call him down to a cheap showdown.

So my conclusion: check back on the flop.

Here's why I check back: Checking back allows him to bluff the turn with a lot of hands that would otherwise have folded to your cbet. Equally, he will bet Kx hands too, but his range is a little more favorable to you on the turn. It keeps the pot in control, so we aren't horribly committed if he shoves the river.

(also, as played: definitely call river with those pot odds)

Not sure why I just wrote an essay for a hand response. Guess I just felt like articulating some (albeit fairly basic) post-flop logic instead of just saying "i do this instead".

Having almost zero posts so far I guess its kind of a joke to disagree with a gold member here but I think after BB checking on the flop, you should definitely make a c-bet. Checking back against one opponent on a dry flop after being the aggressor preflop I think it is not so good for your image. I mean, if you had AQ for example, and hit nothing, you would try to steal the pot with a c-bet, wouldn't you?
Anyway, I just think you should have bet less, maybe 1/2 of the pot, to keep the pot size small so that you can call on the river if necessairy. If this is ok for you, I would have played this the same way.

If you bet with QQ or AQ unimproved, then there is only a small difference between them. You have few outs against Kx or sets, and you fold out many hands which missed. However, checking with QQ is much better than checking with AQ, since you have a strong enough hand to pick off a bluff or to make a value bet later. That means there are many more situations where checking behind with a high second pair hand like QQ will be better than checking behind with air.

If you feel that hands like QJs or ATo are in the big blind's range, then you should be more inclined to make a continuation bet with 99 than with QQ. You protect your 99 from more dangerous overcards by betting. 99 does not have as much equity from checking, since you would be in much worse shape if a J or T comes, and you would not be able to get much value from 99 while you could bet QQ for value. So, it's not just that QQ is between top pair and middle pair, but that QQ is a high pair.

On some flops, you should cbet for value with strong hands, some draws and air, while checking behind with some mediocre hands, some draws, and some trapping hands which have the deck crippled. You might also give up with some misses. On drawy flops, tend to check behind less. On dry flops, tend to check behind more. I think checking behind with QQ was right here.

Originally posted by winnergr
Having almost zero posts so far I guess its kind of a joke to disagree with a gold member here

Even if I had diamond/black/coach status that wouldn't be a valid reason to avoid disagreeing with me.
While those individuals with higher status and such are generally more likely to be correct than you, you'll never really learn the logic behind their decisions if you always just say "OK coach/hand judge/whoever, I agree" without understanding WHY.

some good info in this thread, ged and pzhon covered why we check back flop, so im not going to repeat the reasons.

check behind flop to induce a turn bluff.
if checked to on the turn, then value-bet.
same reasoning for river

thanx guys, pzhon made it clear why is better to check behind in this occasion. no offence ged!