[Closed] $22 MiniFTOPS Event 1

i'm 3beting preflop or folding

as played i'm checking flop for pot control and see what happens

Really? 5 people on this flop and you will check to give everyone a free card?
Isn't it best to bet to clear the field?

And preflop: Being so deep do you think it's too dangerous to call here and let suited connectors and pp's hit a dream flop?

I just fold the flop to his raise. It's so hard to continue profitably here on such a drawheavy board OOP 250bb deep.

i'm 3betting preflop or folding

as played on flop want to hit it very hard so bet/fold here

Calling preflop is by far the best play IMO. Great hand multiway, etc. At higher stakes I think we can start to consider 3betting preflop to disguise our hand and make it easier to play, but saying we should 3bet preflop is results oriented.

Yea with AQ suited in a multi-way medium buy-in tournament you can only just call. It's too strong of a hand to fold and you would have to fold if someone 4-bet shoved your 3-bet.

By calling I'm hoping to flop a two pair or flush, straight or some kinda combo. I'd be happier pairing the Q because on that particular flop I think it's a very easy fold to the raise since there aren't many hands you're beating, When you think about what your opponent is representing AK, AJ have you crushed as well as sets. The only hands that you beat are flush draws and AT but both of those hands are hands likely to call instead of raise. This early in a deepstack tournament it isn't worth it to get it in with top pair and 2nd top kicker there is tons of time to pick up chips. I wish I could play MiniFtops so badly.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Calling preflop is by far the best play IMO. Great hand multiway, etc. At higher stakes I think we can start to consider 3betting preflop to disguise our hand and make it easier to play, but saying we should 3bet preflop is results oriented.

i said that preflop i 3 bet or fold

preflop im folding this hand in this spot like 40% and playing like 60% of time

and btw we dont know that the hand is going to be multiway and we have reversed implied odds vs utg

the main strength/value from this hand comes from flopping big draws and 1 pair made hands with this kind of hand in multiway pot often will not be good enough to win the pot

if I'm going to playing this hand i'm going to 3bet most of the time (like 70%) cos in this massive fields MTT people tend to call too much with all kind of hands early in MTT and i'm not big fan to play this kinda of hand oop (nailed between utg and rest of the table) in a family pot, cos this hand have so much reverse implied odds (that means i dont like to play it without hitting big draw or trips, 2 pairs)

when all that said i'm agreeing that this is great hand multiway but imo inp, cos we can flop BIG DRAWS,
but in this situation we have a madeweakish hand oop on flop with whole table to act behind us, on a drawish flop + our hand cant improve that much if we r behind and certainly our hand is not strong enough to stand a raise vs unknown cos we r going to be oop on turn in bloated pot so this is classic wa/wb spot imo,
therefore i think best play is to check flop for pot control and see what happens

but im just folding this hand preflop in this spot cos
-is too early in mtt,
- we r way too deep to 3 bet or call cos our hand have so much reversed implied odds vs utg range
- there is imo not good reward to risk ratio
- and if we just call we r inviting whole table behind us to join us and we end up in weird spot most of the time, in bloated pot multiway, oop, without initiative, nailed between UTG and the rest of the table

so easy fold pre imo

if we check the flop there are a lot of bad cards for us on the turn that don't let us get to showdown cheaply anyway. Even if you feel it's a WA/WB situation bet/folding is going to serve you better.

BTW, if you feel the rest of the table is going to come along for the ride, i'm more happy having AQs or AJs or ATs than almost any other hand

totally agreeing that calling preflop is the best option. By 3betting you lose a lot combinations that you have beat. His action on the flop is quite strong against that many players. So i agree with chenny that you could fold on the flop.

As played on I hate the rivershove. You want to induce a shove from busted fd. If villain calls on that board you are def. behind. So you just valuetowned yourself at the river.

Originally posted by chenny8888
if we check the flop there are a lot of bad cards for us on the turn that don't let us get to showdown cheaply anyway. Even if you feel it's a WA/WB situation bet/folding is going to serve you better.

BTW, if you feel the rest of the table is going to come along for the ride, i'm more happy having AQs or AJs or ATs than almost any other hand

i totally disagree with this

maybe u get me wrong but i dont say that calling preflop with such a hand is bad in general
i just said that our position/stack sizes suck for calling in this situation cos our hands has a ton of reversed implied odds
cos if couple of villains came along behind us we r in sandwich between original raiser (utg) and other players who have position on us

for ex. what would we do if flop came

1) AhTs5d and UTG Cbets

a) lets assume we just call => which leads to second spot what we on turn do if some1 after we call, raise or call also??

b) lets now assume we raise (which imo is very bad in that spot) => and what if some 1 behind us just calls/if some1 raise is like easy fold and then utg just calls?? what r we doing at any turn?

2) same flop AhTs5d and UTG checks

a) lets assume we bet => which leads to second spot what we do if some1 after we bet call, raise or some1 call and then other villain raise, (or we bet some1 raise other vilailn calls)??? what we do

b) lets now assume we bet => and what if like 2 villains call 1 behind us just what r we doing at any turn? bet again?? what if we bet 1 calls other raise? or we check 1 bets other call/ or raise, what is our line there?

the way i'm seeing it, there are so many scenarios when we end up having second best hand and paying off some villains vs we having best hand and some1 pays us AINEC imo

the point that i'm saying is that we r never happy with our hand and we cant take a lot of value from worse hands in that spot that we r (oop) except when we flop something like monster draw and we played agro + some villains need to have strong hand to play big pot, trips(we wont take much value there too), two pair we get value from AK i guess if some 1 have AK at first place
so thats why i dont like it playing that hand in thats spot, so much reversed implied odds so little value

that was about preflop play

- about checking on flop and see what happens vs leading out
do u really think that any draw will fold when we bet on flop that deep stacked and with that stack to pot ratio?
so what is the point when we bet when you r suggesting to make a bet fold on flop? bloating pot?
why r we betting for, r we betting for info???
and whats are our plans for any turn if we got called in (bloated pot)???

imo cos protection is out of question, and betting for value kinda sucks cos cant be any thinner =>we r only value betting vs draws and we cant stand a raise if some1 decide to play any draw agro, or over plays some pair, which ends up with us folding best hand a ton of time, + we never ever have a save card on turn after some1 calls our bet on flop

so imo we bet is to just check cos we gain same info with checking + our hand is under represented + we keep pot small and we improve our relative position so we can make better decision after action come to us or on the other streets

and btw did u ever thought that is quite possible that utg might have very strong hand or draw(like 9hTh,KhQh or AXhh,QhTh, TT,88) and decide that best way to play that hand vs so much callers preflop on that flop is to check raise flop (max protection,max value,max FEQ) cos is very likely that some1 will take a stab at this pot with so many players after him to act?