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unexpected c/shove on the river -- all-in to call

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wlcKeD
Joined: 24.02.2009

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $600(BB) Replayer
SB ($1,050)
BB ($15,242) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 3, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 39
UTG ($6,782)
Hero ($12,505)
UTG+2 ($5,674)
MP1 ($40,024)
MP2 ($1,350)
MP3 ($20,472)
CO ($20,540)
BTN ($16,207)

Dealt to Hero J♦ 9♦

fold, Hero raises to $1,225, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $1,225, fold, BB calls $625

FLOP ($3,975) T♠ J♠ 3♥

BB checks, Hero bets $1,987, BTN folds, BB calls $1,987

TURN ($7,949) T♠ J♠ 3♥ J♣

BB checks, Hero checks

RIVER ($7,949) T♠ J♠ 3♥ J♣ A♦

BB checks, Hero bets $4,000, BB raises to $12,030 (AI), Hero ???

THE STORY:
Went for a loose steal because of 18/3 guy in the BB [On opr.com there's just 6 games, -100 ROI]. He unfortunately did call, but I caught my top pair on flop, and even better - trips on turn. Checked there on turn, cause I wanted to look weak, as of "with A-high which missed the flop, and gave up on turn", and wanted him to take a stab on the river, cause he's AG=3. Unfortunately an Ace came up, but I still went for a shaky value bet - maaaaaybe he would call off something like KT, QT, and even better if he had AT, or another poorly played Ax [maybe of spades] hand, including AK and AQ, cause I have a note that he didn't 3bet-push 20 bb deep AKo in BB, and just called. BUT NOW, he suddenly pushes [WTF???] ... I also have a note, that he donks wet flop with top two, so after he just check/called the flop, I think I can pretty much rule out JT here, and I don't think that he would play QJ+ or 33 on this flop this way either - saw him lead betting or raising with medium strength hands on boards with flush possibilities - so he's certainly not the guy who slowplays something that are not absolute nuts, I think ... SOOO if he doesn't have a full boat, it's either damned KQ, or basically just a weird bluff (including Ax), with just a small possibility of AT, and tiny tainy possibility of QJ, KJ, whatever the reasons might be for him raising them on the river like that ... What do YOU think ?? I personally had a feeling that it was KQ, but since it is the only hand that can beat me [since I ruled out fulls and QJ, KJ], should I call here ??? Or it should be a crying fold since we're facing a tournament life here?? AND by the way, should I just check behind in the spots like that in the future? I still think there might be some value to pick it up, despite this freak ... no?


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2 replies
JohnTheGreatest
Joined: 28.01.2010

Hi, wIcKeD! :)

1) I'd open fold this preflop (really not a good spot, cause of stack size, ur position, hand strength as well).easy fold pre.

2) as played:

Flop: I'd bet like 3/4 pot (like 3k) on flop vs this type player so I can have a bit less than PSB (pot size bet) left on turn that I can shove with.

Turn: you have a good hand here and if on flop we invested 3/4 pot than you are now left with like 8.25 stack into the 8.5K pot - great to shove with; and if he has a draws: 89, KQ or Ax :spade: let him pay for that.

As played river: I'd call asuming we invested so many chips and are now totally commited, so yeah - call and hope he hit his Ax of :spade:. Though I cant imagine worse hands than yours that he raises here on river, but thats your decision to observe and analyze particular player and decide abt.decision.

Thats my opinion. :)


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amplifyd
Joined: 03.08.2009

Originally posted by miljonszalie
Hi, wIcKeD! :)

1) I'd open fold this preflop (really not a good spot, cause of stack size, ur position, hand strength as well).easy fold pre.

2) as played:

Flop: I'd bet like 3/4 pot (like 3k) on flop vs this type player so I can have a bit less than PSB (pot size bet) left on turn that I can shove with.

Turn: you have a good hand here and if on flop we invested 3/4 pot than you are now left with like 8.25 stack into the 8.5K pot - great to shove with; and if he has a draws: 89, KQ or Ax :spade: let him pay for that.

As played river: I'd call asuming we invested so many chips and are now totally commited, so yeah - call and hope he hit his Ax of :spade:. Though I cant imagine worse hands than yours that he raises here on river, but thats your decision to observe and analyze particular player and decide abt.decision.

Thats my opinion. :)

Pretty much this. Except I have a few adjustments I personally would make.

I would not bet so much on flop - often I find people then like just shove their draws cos they feel comitted and stuff - and tbh we can't really call a shove on the flop so I prefer to bet 1/2 pot. I mean with J9 on this flop we can't really get stacks in for value so I want to try to "pot control".

On the turn - BET! They are not folding draws, Tx etc, again just bet 1/2 pot - at this point I'm not folding to a shove.

On the river is very ugly but tbh I don't see any ch/shove bluffs in his range so I will fold. Calling isn't really bad given you get 3:1 but a 18/3 normally doesn't take this line as a bluff (neither does he take this line with a valuehand you beat imo so its a fold for me)

Don't be worried about tournament life - just make the right decision.


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