Originally posted by BrokesoBroke
Up until October on Pokerstars 200NL Zoom...
I don't think I should out anyone but I think it's fair ppl get to see results...
LOLz... IMO price should be reduced...
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L0ve2playU - ptr is not allowed to run and is illegal as far as i know, pokerstars definitely wont open it though, you can see the graphs in OP from my play in the last 6 months of the year.
BSB- your tone on skype im not at all surprised about that.
from the graph it looks like the slopes down are hands from nl2k or something and the sample size is small, i always played on microgaming previously and have been very transparent with my results.
i only started properly playing on zoom around summer until now where ive played around 250k hands and been one of if the not the biggest winners on both of the sites.
both of these graphs are from the last 5 months which show good volume and great win rate are basically variance free and whatever site you use (i know its illegal) you will be able to see this, posting results just until the time I started playing on the site is hilarious, and posting my in depth stats is really really scummy and I feel very bad that you would do that.
Im a regular winner at 500nl now, in fact heres a hand I just played 1 minute ago.
pads1161 - Lambda Velorum - $2.50/$5 - No Limit Texas Hold'em
Hand uploaded on December 28 2013, 20:13 ET
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/6638293_BBFFEC75AC
Im probably one of the most transparent coaches in the whole world and have made as many videos as most other people in those games
As far as coaching goes, Im ofc very proud of the work I produce.
- I run the biggest weekly poker seminar in the world and here are the videos I have released
I have taken players from these exact games, nl50 and 100 to nl500 and they have posted reference in the thread.
BSB was asked to edit his coaching information from their blog today after we offered different alternatives and tried with good will to keep it active.
Apparantly this has made them take it out on me in this thread.
You can make your own mind up of course.
Also Love2PlayU
If you are seriously interested in buying the package and you want the results verified. I would ask you to send the 600 to myself or TwiceT. I will send you an email from stars with all of my hand histories and if they are not as I say I will send back the money to you and another 400 dollars.
If they are right, you have my course.
I feel like its very likely to just be "one of the gang" though.
I feel like this is more than fair from my side.
Hopefully people see things for what it is.
fwiw I think it is excellant that people questions coaches results. A lot of guys dont play much anymore, especially the most famous coaches in the world who make the most money. Im defintiely somebody who encourages that. I feel like going after somebody for something personal isnt great, but thats how people and life works. Totally fine by me and Im big enough and ugly enough to accept anything and hopefully after seeing my side of the story it will be quite clear.
Originally posted by pleno1
Im big enough and ugly enough to accept anything.
We're all beautiful in our own way Patrick. Like in that Christina Aguilera song...
But seriously like Pleno said he's always been one of the more open guys around. Even showing results in his coachings. So I would trust his results & references. (i've never met or had coachings with him, just what I gather from being active on the forums).
Plus Pleno posted a waaaay bigger and more recent sample, which means its more likely to be indicative of his true results.
Hi Pleno,
I have already contacted you via 2p2 regarding the package. The only reason why I asked you publicly to confirm your results is because I was chatting talking with a friend about your coaching offer and he showed me similar graph to the one posted above(its from invitation only PTR-like site). I cannot confirm nor deny the legitimacy of the graph, but this can be said for any graph posted online.
I hope you understand me.
p.s I do not know any of the posters in this thread.
Posting from iPad at 6.15 am so beware that there will be a tonne of typos. But when somebody questions your integrity when its such an important thing to you it's kinda difficult to sleep, never mind very likely effective you financially in terms of future coachings/sales of this course. ♠_mad:
Originally posted by L0ve2playU
Hi Pleno,I have already contacted you via 2p2 regarding the package. The only reason why I asked you publicly to confirm your results is because I was chatting talking with a friend about your coaching offer and he showed me similar graph to the one posted above(its from invitation only PTR-like site). I cannot confirm nor deny the legitimacy of the graph, but this can be said for any graph posted online.
I hope you understand me.
p.s I do not know any of the posters in this thread.
Ok no problem.
I'm sure you can understand my reasons for thinking this way.
Well either you can a) read my response pot to bsb, 2) accept my invitation to see all my hands through teamviewer) or 3) simply not to buy
A last option would be that I give you the package for free. If you like it you can send me the 495 dollars, if you don't then don't have to send me a cent. I'm confident in what I teach and if you talk the talk you've got to walk the walk, so that offer stands for you sir.
Edit: fuuuuuuuuuuck just wrote a really long post and it deleted so so so tilt! Argh!
I'm going to address a couple of things and then hopefully not,babe to spend too much time on the topic
1) this screenshot
You can see the graph does not have ev, but my posted graph does meaning that its very possible tht I could just have ran under ev. It's a small sample size.
Anyway if you look at my graph and the start of it you will actually see I'm breakeven for a sample size very similar to that in the screenshot. So,what I think is clear is I moved from microgaming normal tables and then started zoom. Took 25k hands to gt used to the games again ad the for over 200k hands won t over 8bb/100.
It actually makes total sense and if you watch any of my videos I talk about how things have gone from 70k hands, 100k hands and 200k hands. I speak abut the adjustments I made and things that are different to normal tables.
I'm literally the most transparent guy you could find. I have had a blog not too long ago where I posted my graph every day, every week and every month. If anything I was too transparent and that's why I cut down.
Furthermore I show my poker tracker in almost all videos and coachings I do directly on my pc.
2) coaches and their results/being transparent
If every coach on 2p2 etc had to get a moderator to vouch for the results then it would absolutely 1000000% be in my favour as most of my coach "competition" either can't win at poker anymore or don't play poker anymore. The biggest coach there is played 50,000 hands in 2012 and less in 2013.
I'm a very very active reg who just loves to teach poker. If you ever watch a live coaching I do or a video I make you wil see the enthusiasm I have towards this and I am not money oriented.
I even have my own website www.wugwug.com where I give free strategy. Free.
3)
Just to summarise
- I'm a very active regular at the 200/500 tables, playing 95% 500nl now
- I used to play normal tables
- I started playing zoom when I moved to hungry with my girlfriend
- I was breakeven for 25k hands, variance, getting used to the games who knows
- for 250k hands or so I've been one of if not the biggest winner t 400 rush, 200 zoom and currently 500 zoom
- I make videos on a monthly basis where you can judge my game and if you don't have access can read the comments which are 99% of the time very appreciated
- I do a live seminar every Wednesday that is free and you can join whenever you like
Again I don't mind tht I have to defend myself here. I don't think I should do. But I am 1000000% confident in myself as a player and coach and I think I can easily write an argument that shows the whole picture with proof and facts. I think posting results upto a date tht doesn't show recent volume that is way bigger than the screen shot and 30%'of the volume of the graph I posted tht is 100% more recent is a really weak way to go about things.
Is my birthday tomorrow so may not be online, but hopefully I don't have to defend myself anymore. If the above is not enough for others then I'd simply recommend just not buying the course, in truth it's way too cheap anyway and the value I'd gain from it vs the value you would get and information you get into my deep game that gives me this win rate in these games would be minuscule.
One thing I request from all is to treat eachother, yourself and myself with respect or t least with as much as I give to you.
I'm a lover not a hater and everybody in this community and website knows that
:f_love: :f_love: :f_love: :f_love: :f_love:
I think ppl who are making an argument about your winrate or credibility as a coach should just watch one of your coachings imo. They are great and show that you have a lot of knowledge about the game.
That said... happy birthday!
Originally posted by BrokesoBroke
Up until October on Pokerstars 200NL Zoom...
I don't think I should out anyone but I think it's fair ppl get to see results...
Well, <Edited by HollyMichelle - as this is an illegal site I am going to remove it - but I appreciate why you posted it> is EXTREMELY inaccurate, looked at my own results and they are WAY off.
haha thanks Shuttled!
Heffron, yeah I think the site is unreliable, doesnt show ev, missed a bunch of hands but it will show your stats pretty reliably in terms of vpip etc
I think posting full disclosure of somebodies stats is pretty crazy but I guess I make videos so people know how I play already.
Anyway, I guess BSB has decided not to reply here as weve spoken on other parts of the forums, so Ill just consider this debate finished for now, I wont be able to check much over the next few days due to commitments.
Happy Sunday all!
Looks like I missed some drama. 
It looks like a very well priced and quailty package for someone at about my level. And I would have snapped it up, but having recently booked some sessions with oblioo combined with getting my arse handed to me after moving up to nl100 and then taking an extended xmas break, I have kind of blown the coaching budget for now. Maybe later...
I really don't see how people can argue against Pleno on this, he is a crusher at the tables and at coaching, showing a losing sample of that size does not change that.
Would also have snap bought this if it wasn't close to 50% of my BR..
I am on brokesobroke side with this.
Firstly I don't believe BrokesoBroke questioned your skill overall just that you don't beat the zoom which may or might not be true. Illegal or not there is a legitimate question whether you are capable to beat the games like zoom (where you can't really table select).
I do understand Patrick that you are here a head coach and work a lot for the community but pokerstrategy already had scandals with coaches being huge money losers (e.g. here Sapheal ) and the infamous Sapheal fiasco. Same for James Sweaney who I believe is still a poker strategy coach.
It is really easy to play with your HM2 database so you would have a great results and pokerstrategy never really had a good system to evaluate coaches results so you shouldn't be suprised that people ask legitmate questions whether you beat the games or not. And NO posting screenshots from poker tracker doesn't make it open and legitimate, it means nothing given how easy it is to change the results there.
There is no reason to get personal and offensive.
You can solve it once and for all by getting in touch with someone legitimate who would evaluate your results or just leave it the way it is but it will tarnish your reputation.
Anyway for me it is always red sign if coach get offensive when people question his/her results.
Especially on pokerstrategy that has long history of hiring and keeping coaches that haven't been winning for years (or as in Sapheal case probably were never winners)
I) I know BrokeSoBroke personally. I have no shares on him or his kids (sadly) and no benefit to post here except getting a bit closer to the truth. And one truth has to be told (ofc it is a biased truth as always, there is no ultimate truth) from my point of view: I didn't follow this whole dispute too closely except sometimes lurking in BsB (old) blog. BsB is the nicest person you can meet. There is nothing to add. A fundamentally nice and good person. I have been travelling around a bit when I was younger and hardcore poker pro, I have worked with many people in education, poker and business. I haven't yet met many people who are by proxy as good and looking to benefit everybody around like BsB. I would be comfortable - even without looking at the evidence out there - to defend BsB blindly and initially always take his side on almost all issues in life. Simply because his values and principles align with mine and he is the nicest person you can imagine. I am definitely somebody who likes to look at all information before making a decision, so it is very unnatural for me to vouch for others almost blindly. In this case, I would risk it and say BsB has only good intentions in general. I would not post this ofc if I wouldn't think any other comment about him would be too far from reality. Ofc, I didn't follow the whole thing and I can be wrong. Those who know BsB know what I am talking about. He is one of the good guys. Period.
II) It is good and probably necessary to question the skills of coaches. However, I also think many of you out there take it as a way to easy excuse that you don't improve and work harder. It's so easy to flame coaches (or anybody else, or anything else) but so hard to be critical with yourself. I mean brutally honest and hard, not pussy style self reflection. I would say be happy about any coaches contribution and observe what they say and think about everything actively. Take those things that might be helpful for your game and try to incorporate the. We don't blindly listen to university professors, why would we blindly follow a poker coach? Patrick's style might fit him, maybe not me. We have to develop our own game and question everything we see and hear and actively work on our poker game, daily. If all coaches are so bad, either don't waste your time listening to them or become a coach yourself and do it better. I would say it's a quite ridiculous statement to say that the PS community doesn't benefit from Pleno as a coach. From what I have heard from others and seen myself, I would say over the last 6 years I have known this platform he is clearly top 3 coaches all things combined, I don't see how you can not see it that way. The user base are the judges, not me. I might not have any idea, but the vast majority of members enjoy his coachings a lot. As for figuring out winrates etc. I really don't want to destroy all your guys illusions, but you have absolutely no idea about math, variance and standard deviation (talk to JB or read our book for some insights). Just take my 2010 Rush game. Stats, graphs, notes ... everything. I have no idea if I have any chance with that approach in Rush 2014, I haven't played the game for such a long time. I might be smart enough to adapt over time but nobody of you could judge if I am a winner, I cannot do so myself probably. The only way to know is to surround yourself with the best players you can surround yourself with and discuss poker 24/7, think it, live it, explore, adapt, reflect, do anything you can to stay ahead of the game. I would not care at all what Pleno's winrate is in game X in Nov 2013. It simply doesnt matter. Not only can nobody judge his skills and profitability, more importantly everything changes constantly. Different regulars on the games means different adjustments are needed. Long story short: Be happy that Patrick invests time in coaching, you wont find better coaches. If you think you are better than him, just sit down on his games and take his money, it's quite easy. You even have an advantage knowing how the approaches specific areas of the game through his various coaching videos and articles. I personally think Pleno is great for this community and way way way better than any outside coach. All those scandals came from outside people. "Home grown coaches" - (c) Purplefizz - is what PS should focus on. That's why I think PS made quite some massive mistakes in the past (I commented on them) and should try really hard to not do them again in the future. Therefore it is important to be pro-active and not flame around. Pleno is good for you.
Moral of the story: I don't think there is right or wrong. What truly matters is what you make of all the info available. I see the biggest problem of PS as a community has always been and seems to still be the passive, negative approach to everything. X doesn't respect the forum rules, Y might not have the winrate he/she is advocating, Z schedules the coaching at a bad time for me because I am at work. This mindset and mentality is extremely bad imho. In poker, in business and in private life. We should go ahead and ask what can we learn from A, how can we implement idea B from a coach or a member, how can we contribute to make this platform better so I can improve my game.
Happy new year all and I'm off hijacking Pleno's thread now 
Well brokesobroke wrote a comment where he questioned Patrick's results. Given that he plays the same games as Patrick in my eyes it is reasonable.
Now it is up to Pleno how transparent he want to be with his results.
suddenly it all turned out into personal war "OMG how could he!!"
anyway I have no horse in this race so I am out of here. Tho I still believe that pokerstrategy coaches should be more transparent with theirs results.It would benefit everyone.
Originally posted by ilidek
Well brokesobroke wrote a comment where he questioned Patrick's results. Given that he plays the same games as Patrick in my eyes it is reasonable.
Now it is up to Pleno how transparent he want to be with his results.
suddenly it all turned out into personal war "OMG how could he!!"anyway I have no horse in this race so I am out of here. Tho I still believe that pokerstrategy coaches should be more transparent with theirs results.It would benefit everyone.
I agree, start with Raskolnikov.
Originally posted by Heffron89
Originally posted by ilidek
Well brokesobroke wrote a comment where he questioned Patrick's results. Given that he plays the same games as Patrick in my eyes it is reasonable.
Now it is up to Pleno how transparent he want to be with his results.
suddenly it all turned out into personal war "OMG how could he!!"anyway I have no horse in this race so I am out of here. Tho I still believe that pokerstrategy coaches should be more transparent with theirs results.It would benefit everyone.
I agree, start with Raskolnikov.
+1 lol yeah
On topic: I watched some of pleno's videos and see him play (also staked him in some MTTs). I'm no Cash Game expert but all I can say is that in my opinion pleno knows what he is doing and can explain them pretty well. If his content/knowledge is enough to crush the current limits - nobody will know this. Its up to the BUYER to decide if pleno's content/knowledge is good enough for the BUYER's GAME. Its also up to the BUYER how he/she will use the content learned in this course. Some will be successful, other less and/or slower.
The price also seems fair compared to some other high stakes coaches that charges $400-600 per hour.
Yeah nice debate guys.
illidek - it came directly after a post by brokesobroke elsewhere on the forum where he had thought I was trying to ban him from the forum and forbid him from having a blog, the mods removed his blog and he isntantly posted this in here thats why I replied directly, however in the post I was pretty reasonable and respectful.
Regarding being transparent with results, absolutely. Like I said if every coach on the market is 100% honest with their results thats 100000% good for me as I belive I have the highest or one of the top 5 win rates over the last few years.
Regarding PokerStrategy coaches they actually have to prove results to me and show me a test video with their though process before I allow them to be a coach and thats why you will see raskolnikov, yourdoom and other coaches who dont play anymore dont coach anymore and we have new coaches such as uri peleg, myself and lnternet who play and win in the games.
TwiceT- I agree, although I think if anybody is winning over 5bb-100 at say 300k hands its probably a good indication they are a good player. One thing people dont tke into consideration is that your game can be comletely different at hand 30,000 than it is at hand 80,000 maybe you got coaching, maybe you had a mental problem etc.
In all my videos and coachings I show a up to date graph live form my computer, I offered people to have evry hand Ive played sent from stars, i have multiple multiple people who have been coached from me and moved through the stakes etc etc etc.
Like I say I dont like having to defend myself as if people are attacking you because nobody does ofc 
haha, but if everybody cards are on the table im 100% confient Id end up being in the top top tier of coaches in terms of rep and results and thus I dont mind the debate taking place, even if it may detract from the actual package here and slow sales down.
Finally I even had a bunch of known pros contact me saying its ridiculous I am selling this package for so cheap and so many regs from nl50-200 are going to become way better, so if it doesnt sell out then its not the end of the world.
Anyway, THANKS twicet, for your nice encouraging words
THANKS all the guys who have stuck up for me ITT
THANKS for all the guys who have questioned me with respect ITT as it allows me to tell people who I am without sounding like an arrogant marketing douchebag
and finally THANKS to the community for being so great.
Btw, incase you missed it in a survey of all the members on PokerStrategy here are the results..
I speak in facts, not bullshit!
Why not just post lifetime graphs or am I missing something?
if you did purge just ask stars for hands and load it to HEM1 or sth to avoid clogging your database - that should stop any doubts 
Not sure if other sites allow the same
EDIT: Also seeing a B/E graph from before then after would get you even more buyers imo it just shows you are a normal guy who worked hard on your game and succeeded - it's easier to relate for most people than the ridiculous always win huge BB/100 small sample graphs that most coaches post.