Finding My Favorite Format | This is a Zoom NL Bankroll Challenge Now

Hi dcumberbatch,
Welcome to PokerStrategy.com forums!

What a great intro...

Best of luck on the challenge :gl:,
VS

Wow so many tools, seems like a very solid first post here in our forum. I am looking forward to any observations you have during your challenge.

What I am particularly interested - which games exactly did you play on BetOnline? I was always a bit confused about jackpots, windfalls and whatnot....

See you,SvenBe

Thank you VS & SvenBe - really appreciate the encouragement! :f_thumbsup::f_thumbsup:

SvenBe, in relation to your question about BetOnline and comparing spin and go options across sites, I played WindFalls. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the two most common variants of Spin and Go's on poker sites, so please excuse me if the following explanation is information you already know. A basic explanation is that most sites offer one option which has less variance, but a lower potential maximum prize multiplier, and the second variant has higher variance, but a higher potential maximum prize multiplier.

In BetOnline, the $3 Windfalls you can win up to $6,000, whereas the $3 Jackpot you can win up to $15,000. With Windfalls, you will more frequently receive 3x, 4x, 5x, etc multipliers, whereas with jackpots you'll more frequently find yourself in 2x multipliers.

I think all sites show the % chance of each multiplier, and then a player can review how it's different in windfall or windfall equivalents, with jackpot or jackpot equivalents. I know that BetOnline has 2 pages detailing the frequency, and WPN does as well.

It's on my to do list to perform a more exhaustive comparison, also comparing rake for sites available to me. Also, I did some google searching and I found one calculator, SwongSim, so far that could be used for this; it works in a similar fashion to primedope's tournament variance calculator. I also just saw a reputable poker player and coach using it to make some points in a video, so I look forward to using it.

When I have the time, I'll crunch the numbers with the calculator, and see what comes up.

As for a status update, just got back from a long business trip, that went well! That's been my focus, so haven't grinded as much. I also spent a few days tinkering with DriveHud and working out few a things with their support staff, nice guys they have over there by the way!

Looks like it was a good past week, as when I did play, I ran hot on BetOnline.

BetOnline: $24 over 24 tournaments. That's a net of more than 7 buy-ins and ~30% ROI!

Just as I've been going about my past week, I have been mulling over the potential goal and micro goals for the BR challenge, as well as a few other items.

Working on the HUD has made me reconsider if I should rule out Global. As I've been tinkering with it the past week and then testing it on the tables, I've realized that even if I did get it set up perfect, I still would not know what normal ranges are for regs haha! For example, with Drivehud out of the box, they have badges that will pop-up similar to NoteCaddy or what PT4 has for free. The badges are configurable, so for example if someone VPIPs 36+ and PFRs 0-13, and low 3-bet, it labels them as a fish. It ends up labeling everyone as fish and nutballs, etc. in Spin and Gos, because everyone has much higher VPIPs in Spins compared to 6-max haha! I can re-configure these, but I still need to learn standard ranges for regulars/solid players. Furthermore, from watching Spin and Go live plays and analysis on youtube, I really have realized how much more experienced players than me first evaluate notes and color tags based on showdowns and live reads, compared to using HUD stats from micro to MidStakes. More details about the HUD to come.

The other reason to reconsider Global, is because the stakes go down to 50 cent, and why not start at the very bottom if I can, and if I'm brand new to the format after all.

Last thing, is the issue with the blind increases. Global seems to have their blinds make a huge jump from 1st to 2nd level so average stack is 10 BBs by level 2. This was the same situation with their hyper 6-maxes. I know many people that are not familiar with Spins and hyper turbos or dislike these formats express that it's just push or fold, which is a slight exaggeration. However, with Global the evaluations by these many people may be quite accurate haha!

The last last note, is I hate it when sites don't let you switch from Chips to BBs lol!

Last, I'm reconsidering what kind of training I should focus on. I'm thinking less GTO based, learning a more basic system first, and just getting some good volume in at the lowest stakes and just enjoying myself. I do have to say, however, that going through some in-depth GTO training has eye-opening to some post-flop improvements.

For example, A Q 5 rainbow and we face a small bet from BB. When it comes to King High Off Suit hole cards (no made hand), we want to call more frequently when our King matches one one of the suits on the flop. Then, if the opponent slows down and the flush draw for out the suit that is the same as our King comes in on the turn, we can start bluffing.

The above is interesting, because typically I would never think of the suitedness of my off-suit holdings on rainbow flop, it's not a scenerio where I can have a flushdraw or even a backdoor flush-draw for that matter. The result is that as I'm playing, now I'm more frequently thinking about suitedness in situations where it is indeed relevant, whereas previously I did not think it was relevant.

Also, similar realizations have been happening with backdoor straights. Funny thing is, on this same board, I didn't even realize that K3o has a double-straight draw haha! I don't think I've ever identified myself as having a double backdoor straight draw thanks to the potential wheel A-5 and then also potential A-T. Boi is my face red haha!

Anyway, I wanted to wet everyones' whistles until my next post! Below is a 20x win! ...50 cent buy-in however haha!

(1 SC = $1)

Thanks again all that have checked out my blog!

Global Poker (1 SC = $1)
1st Screenshot taken since starting on Global 9.22.21 for below

End of 9.22.21 below

9.23.21 after morning session

9.24.21 after evening session (1.5 hours), with multipliers shown below throughout session:

x2, x5, x3, x3, x3, x2, x2, x5 (35 mins in), x2, x5, x2, x5, x2, x3

14 tournaments     |    $9.5 profit  / up 19 Buy Ins    |      $7 buy ins total    |    35.7% ROI

After morning session 9.24.21, breakeven exactly after 7 games in half an hour

9.25.21 Saturday morning session  Net 7 dollars in

SC 141.07

Net $10 since beginning of challenge so far.

Breakeven afternoon session

Sep 25, 2021 - 131 tournaments today.  Increase of $3.5

SC 144.57

Sep 26, 2021 - $137.57 decrease of $7 -> This one hurt haha!

Didn't even play that many tournaments and lost $7

I went on a 5 mile charity run in the morning, and by the time I got back, I was pretty tired.

I think I'll create my own graph by plugging these into Excel. I realized that I could find the number of tournaments by looking at my transaction history in Global, in addition to profit and loss.

That day on Saturday September 25th was one of my best grind days I've had. I do have to admit though, I throughout the 5 sessions I played for 7.5r hours total, I didn't feel like I was put in too many difficulty situations.

Below is my report with Toggle Track:

In addition to using Toggle to track my time, it has a handy start/stop button with description that stays above other windows on my screen. Therefore, I use it to hide my balance during gameplay!

Furthermore, I've been using OBS to record my sessions, and go back to my mistakes time to time. When I make a mistake, I note the mistake in Evernote, along with a Timestamp. I start recording with OBS right right after my first table fills up, by hitting the OBS hotkey to start recording. In the settings, I changed this to ctrl+shift+r.

It's funny, I use the same notation system to mark my mistakes as I do my opponents!

/// is a preflop mistake
[[[ is a push or fold mistake
---is a post flop mistake

...... is HU mistake, often I use this as a line break and then put notes below it, again with the notation symbols above.

I also sometimes combine [/ if they raise and then call off as a mistake, usually calling off too wide.

For clarity a common example is:

///limped BTN x2

The x2 means they made this mistake twice.

I tend to make quite a few notes until a tag someone a certain color, unless they make a jaw dropping error (I've seen people raise BTN then call when the player in the BB jams from BB with 23s when >20 BBs deep eff. :O).

A lot of the below is coming right from my Evernote.

Preliminary goals:

Review and create new goals every day.

Play a certain amount of Spins. 

MicroGoal -> 10 a day keeps the doctor away! Review a preflop chart before and after.  The gameplay is repetition / practice!

This has been going well! I chose 12 BBs HU SB limp/Shove to be my first preflop chart to learn. I even printed it out and put it near my bed haha! It is such a funny thing to think about memory. We can quiz ourselves and get things down pat with our short-term memory, and feel like we could never forget the material. However, then 2 days later, and it's our long term memory, and we can have difficulty remembering now if it's QJo that we are pushing about 80% of the time, or QTo

GOAL  -> In 4 months, reach x stake. Move up one stake.  I haven't truly moved up one stake, once.  Use 125x Buy In BRM.  Need $125 for $1 Spins

This is a totally exciting goal to me. I realized just the other day that despite my efforts, I really have never moved up a stake based on completely correct BRM. In Hypers, sure I really did seem to be profitable with a couple hundred dollars in profit. But I never systematically documented by process and celebrated a specific milestone for succeeding.

In 4 months, be able to understand x spots and x preflop charts.
->I think it may make sense to start with preflop charts, helps for when I want to go to 3 tables.

Don't waste time.  Skip watching YouTube if I haven't gotten in my Spins for the day.

Make notes/color code x amount of Villains in a session.

Learn to calculate blind levels quickly/quick multiples of common blind levels

I made a BB chart for this:

This chart was a really good idea. It is such a distraction to keep trying to calculate the same blind levels over and over again while in a hand. I didn't realize how much of a difference it could make to get this down more.

Key Points to think of during session

Focus on making the correct decision each time
• Think first in terms of my range, then how I want to play my actual hand
•For example, if I find myself thinking should I bet with 2nd pair, I'm having the wrong thought process
• First rule of the bankroll challenge, don't think about the bankroll challenge

GTO pre-flop ranges

Color-code, notate, and exploit opponents
• watch villains reactions, timing, bet sizes - it keeps me interested, it's fun, and I can get useful info

Remember to take breaks

Have fun every hand

Notes during play and time stamp

9.26.21 pre-dinner session starting at 4:45 PM
@20:50 [[[ Re-raised sb v BB with A7s.  Looks like calling would work better than shoving according to GTO chart.

@23:30 [[[ BTN ~23 bb all in, then call from sb, should I call with 77 in BB?
ICMIZER shows fold.  Call with (99+, AQs+, AKo+)

@40:40 [[[ call with Q8o rather than rejam against short stack limping from BTN? He called with KJs

9.26.21 pre-dinner session starting at 06:10 PM
@2:32 ---still not sure about how to play OESD on turn -> Review GTO vids
After quick analysis, I'm more apt to call with OESDs with overcard(s) or other equity such as BFDs/FD, and shove when my OESD doesn't have overcard(s).

@18:30 HU do I bet FD and with K?

Closing thoughts after sessions
What went well?  What went poorly?  What do I want to review?

I want to see how I should play OESDs, in general, when I get them on the turn.  I feel like I'm playing them wrong, I'm betting them currently.  Review more GTO play videos.

Good blog! Now I follow you!

How good a blog of spin format!

Thank you thebomb, I really appreciate it :f_drink:!

I realized the other day that at these stakes I'm playing, the login rewards at Global Poker are quite substantial, see the picture below.

Last week was the first time I made sure to log in every day for a total of $3.1

The rake is 6.01% for Jackpot Sit'n'Gos, and is built directly into the Buy-In.

In the same period, last week, I played 20 Spins, which therefore equates to 20*(.061*.5)=$.61

In fact, at time of writing this I've played 133 Spins, which would equate to 133*(.061*.5)= $4.0565

Therefore, taking into account login bonuses, I've only paid about $.96 in rake over 133 Spins which is great, as this is only accounting for the login rewards I received last week, and it could of course be more if I secure this daily! This is a great situation since typically rake is much higher at Micro Stakes.

Furthermore, I can still choose to login at Global to receive the login bonus, and also play at other sites and still cut down on my overall rake paid. Therefore, a new goal is going to be to make sure to secure this login bonus every day, as it will be a free addition to my bankroll!

Other updates, I've really been able to learn and remember one pre-flop chart this past week. I may be able to learn at a faster rate in the future, but I'm actually pretty happy with this progress. I've learned from other times I've tried to learn charts, and take too many on at one given time. Even if I can really learn 2 or 3 a week, that will be a fine rate.

Therefore, I'm updating my goal about learning pre-flop charts, and including the total amount of charts I want to learn. Then, I'll forecast to see how long it will take me to learn these charts.

Here is the potential break down:

3 Handed
BTN OR: 19
BTN VS 3-BET: 11

SB OR: 9
SB Limp, then VS BB Raise: 7
SB VS BTN: 4

BB V BTN: 4
BB V Limp: 3
BB V SB Raise: 6

BB V SB, ISO, then Face Shove: 5

Heads Up
SB OR: 8
SB V BB All In: 4
SB V BB ISO: 15

BB V SB Limp: 5
BB V SB OR: 4

Total: 104 charts

Welp, that's a lot of charts! I'll have to learn how to learn charts haha! Surely there will be someway to simplify this a bit.

11.09.2021 Entered into BR Challenge!
Weeks 1-3 in the books!

Oct 3, 2021 - $148.17 increase of $9.1 throughout week

Spin' N' Gos $.50

Starting balance: $100
Spins played: 133
Profit: $16.68
Current Bankroll: $116.68

I was away this past weekend, but coming back I had a bit of a sun run in just a few tournaments. As for tonight, broke even despite have a great run of multipliers, with one 10x and one 5x. Didn't win either this time around.

Other updates, the excel charts are still on route. I've been able to easily pull my transaction history from Global into Excel, just need to see if it makes sense to pull them all into one sheet, rather than multiple sheets, and then create the chart. Should end up looking neat!

Thanks again for checking out the blog!

Hey hey pokerstrategy.com visitors!

This is an interesting point for me in my bankroll building challenge for this format. I've played enough that I have a certain 'feel' for how good I may be at this format, and the challenge ahead of me. This is a great point for reflection, and I think I have a lot to think about - so I'm thinking double-time!

A note, I decided I would focus on Heads Up first, and play HU Hyper 1v1s. I thought this would simplify my study, and I've come to learn that this format translates pretty much exactly to how HU plays in Spin in Gos (same max stack size, no ICM, etc.)

I feel like I've been here before, that I am doggy paddling as furiously as possible, but going nowhere. I've been break even for the last 2 weeks or so, which feels like months when previously I've become accustomed to being profitable at Hyper 6s.

Take a look at these stats:

Yep, that's $0 exactly after 48 games. When I first saw this, I thought wow I don't have any edge in this format. Maybe I am just more attuned to SnG/tournament style poker. I felt somewhat bad that I've been playing these games, I've been single tabling, and it looks like this is going to be difficult.

However, I need to remind myself that back when I first started and played cash games in December of 2020, I was a breakeven to slightly losing player.

Therefore, the fact that I have not been worse that breakeven is actually an improvement from when I started playing poker online. Last, my All-in EV, a key metric for Spin N' Gos, and I would then also assume HU Hypers as well, shows that I may have gone through some bad variance as well.

Furthermore, there is more insight to be gained from my experience that just the results.

I'm pretty happy that I have been able to mark my hands consistently, and I have started to review them in DriveHud along with a GTO Solver, gtowizard.com. This solver deserves further discussion later. For now, I have to say, it's awesome because it has cloud solved sims for Spin N' Gos, which are free currently for a limited time as they just added them.

Here are my tagged hands, with a summary note after reviewing the Qc2d hand with GTOWiz:

Furthermore, here is how I reviewed the hand, comparing my play in Drivehud replayer with the correct actions in GTO Wiz:

At this point, we can see in the replayer I lead out with a Pot Sized Bet. My thinking, is that I have a Q of clubs, so that diminishes the chance he has 2 clubs. I hope that he has a single, high club, like the A of clubs, that is causing him to be stick in this hand, and I want to charge him for the next street. We can see in GTOWiz, that my line of thinking is totally wrong. In fact, with this hand, I should be not only be checking here, but I also should not have raised on the prior street either.

I suppose this does make sense since my hand is very strong, so perhaps he will bet his range on the flop, and if he did have the flush draw, since I have the Q♣:, that leaves 8 outs to hit a flush by the river, instead of the typical 9.

Therefore, the math is 9/47 to hit by the turn without blockers, or 19.15%.
Chance by the river: .1915 + (1957 * (1-0.1915)) = 38.529%

When I have the blocker, Q in this case, that is 8/47, or 17.021%.
Chance by river: .17021+(.17021*(1-.17021))= 31.1%

This difference is substantial. As I'm reviewing this again, I realize I should check GTOWiz and see if I have a Q of a different suit, if I should raise the flop or lead the turn. Double-checking, it looks like having a flush blocker doesn't impact whether I call or raise.

It's interesting, because I've heard previously to charge our opponents for when they don't hit their draws. Sure, GTO does show that we can raise the flop bet ~30% of the time, but it is interesting that the vast majority of the time, 70%, we are calling and seeing a turn card.

Oops, I had a brain fart, and looks like I have been putting in the turn card as the 5♦: instead of the J♣:

Wow, turns out, after all that, it is showing that it likes me to lead the turn with a bet from 75% to 100%, so I was correct all along here.

Furthermore, when my opponent re-raises/jams, I'm supposed to call. So, looks like I played this hand correctly after all.

I've kept up my streak for claiming my free daily bonus on Global Poker:

The average is $.443 per reward, so after 22 days I've realized about $9.74, which is great!

Furthermore, Global recently had a promotion where I could deposit $15, and they would add $5.

(Post currently being written, posted what I have so I wouldn't lose progress)

Nice, I have a new blog to follow

Hello all!

A good amount of events have transpired since my last post in August.

I decided I was still interested in trying other formats, because Spins and HU Hypers just didn't seem that interesting to me.

I've tried MTTs before, but switched off of them because it just seemed like my bankroll was dwindling down. For example, take a look at my WPN graph in the past:

Right when I started with somewhat large field MTTs, I final tabled about twice, shooting up my profits. However, you can see how it was a quick descent back to where I started haha. (Referring to between 0 and 200 games in the graph)

Then, when it started going up again, this is when I switched to Hyper 6s. (200 to 400)

Now, let's take a look at how things went after 400. It's the Hocky Stick formation we all know and love in graphs!

So from about 200 to about 1100 games, it's mostly 6 max Hypers with a few MTT SNGs that were prior to my PS.com bankroll challenge.

During November of last year, I switch from HU Hypers and Spins to MTTs and MTT SnGs.

I've found one site in particular that although receives less traffic, the 30-40 player MTT SnGs are very soft that the results are quite good!

It's a rebuy and add-on, with the option of doubling your starting stack by buying twice in the beginning, so it's a $1 or $.30 buy-in that really is a $3 or $.90 minimum. I'd frequently would fire twice. If I remember correctly, I think I deposited $80 on the site, and it sits at $180 now.

I also have success on Global Poker, and as you've seen on my WPN graph towards the end, MTT + MTT SnGs have been profitable there as well, in addition MTT SnGs on BetOnline.

Primarily because of the existence of the games from the site in the picture above, I'm thinking that MTT SnGs + MTTs will be my bread and butter for building a bankroll.

That's not all! In December, with the X-Mas and black Friday deals, I bought PLO training, courses, and even bought poker coaching for the first time! I had a few great sessions with Kyyberi.

However, I wasn't having any fun with PLO. I think a large part is I'm not a fan of multi-way pots, and perhaps not being able to go all-in is not fun as well. (Also, losing $40-$70 throughout my time with PLO is certainly not fun haha!) However, Kyyberi really showed me how productive and fun it is to use equity calculators and tools to review post flop.

I think the reason why I moved away from no limit cash in the first place was because post-flop was tough, and I had no idea how to review my hands post-flop. The coaching really opened my eyes and made me think perhaps I could figure this out! At this same time, I ran across on youtube, youtube recommendations, some pro players uploading highlights of their Zoom cash games.

I jumped on Ignition Zoom 5 NL, and immediately sun run'd for ~8-10 buy ins haha! I tried to switch to BetOnline 10 NL, and immediately got crushed for about 5 buy-ins.

Back to Zoom 5 NL, I've signed up for another training site, so I have two $25 subscriptions going. I'm using FlopZilla a lot right now, and I plan to make use of power Equilab's EV trees in the future.

Thanks for reading!!!