Why do I call?

    • Yordi85
      Yordi85
      Bronze
      Joined: 31.01.2009 Posts: 1,248
      Does anyone have the same problem I have with calling?
      Yesterday I have been 6 BI up but it was like somewhere about 10 if I just lay the cards down that I knew I was far behind.
      Why do I call?

      Hero is KK late.

      ep 2 min raise.
      mp 2 3bet
      hero 4bet ( I was thinking on this very moment if he is going allin there I have to fold! )

      ep 2 folds
      mp2 goes allin.
      hero... call Why do I call?


      Is this a psychological problem or am I just tired?

      Does someone have been to this?
  • 8 replies
    • sindeon
      sindeon
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.10.2010 Posts: 133
      Hi,

      tbh I would shove yet his 3bet with KK. He could shove your 4bet with AK, QQ, JJ...I don´t see the point of folding KK ind this situation (unless you had further reads on him you didn´t tell us...like he plays only AA).
      I don´t think you played it wrong, but maybe any experienced player have an opposite view.;)

      Cheers,
      Ondra
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Your description is way too general to say.. Against some players i'd just ship the nickles right away, against some its a fold to his 5bet ship. Post proper hand history, stats, reads and then we can tell.
    • pleno1
      pleno1
      Coach
      Coach
      Joined: 19.11.2010 Posts: 5,596
      Yeah Jordi.

      When seeking hand analysis it is imperrative for the "sharks" on the forum to understand the game. This includes stack sizes, positions and statistics. You can upload your hand history here: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-hand-converter/

      If you use elephant/holdem manager, upload the statistics of each player so we can give in depth feedback.

      For the information you gave us so far it is 100% a clear call. When you 4bet KK it isn't to fold later on.

      However one great thing I can take with your post is that you are disciplined. I would guesstimate that less than 5% of players will have wanted to fold KK pre flop, knowing that it isn't the immortal nuts is very good and it seems like you have fantastic basics to improve your poker on.

      Lets get some proper hand historys and get some great feedback from some of our talented members?
    • sufix645
      sufix645
      Bronze
      Joined: 20.09.2009 Posts: 519
      you never ever EVER fold KK pre at micros unless you have 1k+ hands on rock or smth like that
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      Originally posted by sufix645
      you never ever EVER fold KK pre at micros unless you have 1k+ hands on rock or smth like that
      Say you're on the button in NL5 FR game on Pokerstars. UTG raises, UTG2 3bets, MP1 4bets shoves. If you dont fold here you're a fish.
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      Originally posted by Alficor1
      Originally posted by sufix645
      you never ever EVER fold KK pre at micros unless you have 1k+ hands on rock or smth like that
      Say you're on the button in NL5 FR game on Pokerstars. UTG raises, UTG2 3bets, MP1 4bets shoves. If you dont fold here you're a fish.
      Are you serious? Is he serious? It depends on the situation but to state that someone not folding here is a fish so 'matter of factly' lol Sorry but I do not agree.

      To OP, I have folded AK when needed, call me loose or old fashioned but I have NEVER folded KK pre-flop
    • Alficor1
      Alficor1
      Bronze
      Joined: 16.06.2010 Posts: 7,291
      I'm dead serious. You dont have to agree with me. But it always makes me laugh when i see a hand like that when someone goes broke and cries about "oh i was sure he had aces, but they say i can never fold kings pre so i didnt fold".

      Another example, FR game, you have kings on utg, open raise, everyone folds. The biggest nit at the table, a 5/4 guy who hasnt 3bet in 150 hands, 3bets you to an amount which you cant call to setmine. What do you do? 4betting kinda turns your hand into a bluff, you cant call just to setmine. So you can only rly fold.

      You dont have to listen to me, hey, i dont care, you can keep on going broke with kings in these spots. Its not my money you play for.
    • AKM247
      AKM247
      Bronze
      Joined: 26.05.2010 Posts: 412
      Originally posted by Alficor1
      I'm dead serious. You dont have to agree with me. But it always makes me laugh when i see a hand like that when someone goes broke and cries about "oh i was sure he had aces, but they say i can never fold kings pre so i didnt fold".

      Another example, FR game, you have kings on utg, open raise, everyone folds. The biggest nit at the table, a 5/4 guy who hasnt 3bet in 150 hands, 3bets you to an amount which you cant call to setmine. What do you do? 4betting kinda turns your hand into a bluff, you cant call just to setmine. So you can only rly fold.

      You dont have to listen to me, hey, i dont care, you can keep on going broke with kings in these spots. Its not my money you play for.

      Come on how often are 'these spots' going to occur, in the long run I am NEVER going to go broke shoving Ks preflop. You're saying it always makes you laugh as if the only hands you've ever seen are Ks getting busted by As.

      Don't get me wrong I really appreciate your arguemnt and CAN see your point of view, but for me personally, KK is always going to be worth shoving preflop.

      On that happy note;