[Closed] [coaching-feedback] NL SSS Gold with xarry2 - wednesdays at 7pm CET

Make it a neutral color in the last hand Now it's easy to see what you did and write something based on that.

I have to say you explained it very well, I never play SSS but I understand all of this

Originally posted by Yoghi
I have to say you explained it very well

#2

very, very nice review.

TribunCaesar

@yoghi:
thx:) well, actually I just wanted to mark the spot the question is about. I took a look at it again but I couldn't conclude to the following action. what do you think happened? I bet you don't get it That's why I asked...

Adv SSS Coaching - 05/21

(Un)fortunately I had not many very interesting or difficult hands in this week's coaching. I will thus concentrate on 2 questions which came up in the coaching.

Interesting Questions:

A player with 11/6 who limps UTG has mostly a small to medium pp. Do you think thats correct?

In general, 11 Vp$ip is pretty tight that's why we can't assume a loose range here. In order to get a more precise range it is also important to include the PFR. Very passive players with a PFR smaller than 3-5% will often limp quite stong holdings like JJ or QQ and AK. Also keep in mind: if an opponent has a high ATS then a big part of his overall PFR will consist of stealraises.

The 11/6 opponent here should raise QQ+ and AK and probably also JJ. AQ he could maybe fold but a raise is possible. Let's now take a look at his limping range. It could be PPs and maybe good suited connectors.

PPs: 22-TT (JJ)
SCs: KQs,QJs, JTs

Sometimes he can set up a trap with AA or KK.

His overall Vp$ip is maybe 8% (22+,AKs,KQs,QJs,JTs,AKo). After eliminating the hands he usually raises about 5.4% remain. They consist to 70-80% of PPs. Its imo not poosible to conclude to an exact range. Every opponent will deviate here or there. Thus only individual reads can bring more detailed results.

Could you explain a bit about defending vs floats please?

To start with, a float is mostly something like a bluffcall in position with the intention to overtake the initiative and thus the pot on later streets. (see http://www.pokerstrategy.com/glossary/Float )

We as shortstacks will only have to think about defending against floats when we still have a big stack left on the turn (otherwise we would often push flop or turn directly). This could be after we doubled up before or in a freeplay.

Possible turn-lines after we assume to be floated on the flop:

(1)check/fold, (2)check/raise(all-in), (3)2nd barrel

when to use:

(1): - we still haven't hit anything and don't see foldequity
- we have hit a marginal hand (bottom pair, weak draw...) but don't
see enough (fold)equity to continue the hand

(2): - we still haven't hit anything but see foldequity through a check/raise
- we have hit a marginal hand and see good foldequity and maybe
some remaining equity if we get called
- we have hit a good hand but want to trap/balance our bluffs

For a c/r it is key that we have an aggressive opponent who will bet most likely after we check to him and feign to give up our hand. By doing so we will induce bluffs and marginal bets by our opponent - money that he wouldn't have put in the pot if we made a 2nd barrel. With a c/r we can now gather this money quite often but even if we get called we have some remaining equity (which is btw greatly increasing the EV of such a (semi-)bluff)

(3): - we still have nothing but see foldequity
- we have hit something and think it is good enough to beat our
opponent's range

If we face passive players we can't rely on them to make a bet. We can't c/r them and we will often give away freecards. it is important that our opponent has still a loose range on the turn in order to give us the needed foldequity. In addition a drawy flop and a rag on the turn are a decent spot for a 2nd barrel - as well as a scarecard on the turn which is likely to be in our range.
Key indicators are the fold to flop(turn) bet value and the WTS.

As always you should include other information (preflop stats, reads, history).

Adv SSS Coaching - 05/28

Let's first deal with an interesting question from the coaching channel:

Xarry, when playing more then 4 tables, I find it hard to notice when players adapt their play to me...
So playing diffrently from their stats... Do you have advice on this?

I usually prefer to multitable when I play SSS. However the more tables you play the less attention you have for the single tables/hands. You will have to make your decisions very quick and don't have much time to think deeply about the action. That's why the learning effect of multitabling is way worse than those while playing less tables. I can just recommend to mix up the number of tables you play. Simply add some 4-6 Table sessions to your usual play. You will then have enough time to think deeply about the action on the tables and will therefore gather much more information about your opponents, too. Besides you will improve your game really faster than with only multitabling.
Another possibility is to record your sessions, either with a screen recorder or at least only the most interesting hands with a handgrabber. Always rework your sessions! Then you will also notice many things which you would have overseen otherwise.
In addition you should sometimes update your PT database. Every player changes his playing style constantly. Therefore stats which are older than some months are usually worth almost nothing. Erase them in order to keep your stats updated.
The short-term adaptions are however hard to notice in session rework e.g. But the more experience you gather the easier it will become for you to even notice them during you play.

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;CO$271.14:1053/17/1/1.1/36/51/19/66;Hero$37.85:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K♥, A♦
UTG+2 calls $2.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $9.00, CO calls $9.00, 4 folds.

Flop: ($23.00) 8♥, 4♦, 3♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $14, CO calls $14.00.

Turn: ($51.00) 5♥ (2 players)
Hero ???

Other reads: CO folds to a cbet in 54%

Flop play is standard. On the turn I get a gutshot in addition to my overcard outs. In the coaching I played c/f which seems suboptimal to me afterwards. With a 17% VP$IP my opponent will call my preflopraise with a broad range from small to quite good PPs, many broadway combinations and good (suited) connectors. He also calls cbets quite loose and has a high WTS. Therefore I will still face a range on the turn which is loose enough to justify a push. I wont have much foldequity with only 15$ left but enough remaing equity.

Break even equity is 18.4%.
A possible turnrange for CO could be:

JJ-88,44-33,AKs,A8s,A5s-A3s,9s8s,87s,65s,AKo,A8o,98o

He is very passive preflop and also not aggressive postflop. Therefore I still have some overpairs in his range as well as AK (I had the read that he only calls these hands on the flop). This gives us 21.4% remaining equity.

EV - No Foldequity:

EV = (51$ + 14.85$)*0.214 - 14.85*0.786 = ~2.4$

Even with our small remaing stack we could have about 5-15% FE which will also increase our winnings.

When you're still unimproved on the turn always take a look at the following parameters in order to determine if a 2nd barrel is profitable:

- Pot Odds
- remaining stack -> determines FE
- looseness of your opponents turnrange (WTS, fold to cbet, maybe your opponent makes floats...)
- remaining equity

Hand 2:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;CO$318.50:112/26/2/1.8/26/36/15/57;Hero$43.39:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6♥, K♥
5 folds, CO calls $2.00, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5.00) 7♠, 6♣, 2♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $4, CO calls $4.00.

Turn: ($13.00) 5♥ (2 players)
Hero ?

Analyse the situation according to the aspects I mentioned in the hand before. What is heroes best action?

Answer:

This is a very decent spot for a 2nd barrel. We face aloose opponent who can still have a big range on the turn. The turncard is however not a scarecard for him so he can still call us with X7 or X6. Nevertheless we picked up a flushdraw. Together with our pair and the K Overcard we have up to 14 Outs. Therefore we don't need so much FE to make the 2nd barrel profitable. Another advantage is that if we hit on the river, we can push without making an overbet. Further our opponent won't put us on the flush so often which increases our payout.

Very nice coaching and review again Xarry2!

There are a few question I forgot this week, but will write em down and ask next week.

One thing I would love to know; are you planning on making more vids + when do you expect them?

Rgds,
Leo

Wow awesome review thread. Thanks for the great hand discussions!

thx

@leo: coming soon

I have a question: With what hands do you squeeze against a stealer and a caller?

@fortune: as always with poker, there is no general answer to your question, too. there are too many different variables which influence the outcome of our squeeze. most important is the initial stealer. you have to take a look at his stats (VP$IP, PFR and ATS) in order to determine his range.
Of course, you can push with all hands that have more than 50% equity against this range. Other good holdings for a squeeze are PPs or good suited connectors which have good equity against the calling range. But here you see how complex this is. If you haven't got good reads you can't tell anything about the callingrange/foldequity.
Therefore I can't give you a more detailed answer as long as it is so general.

Adv SSS Coaching - 06/04

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;SB$293.79:789/13/8/1.7/23/58/17/36;Hero$34:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9♣, 9♥
UTG+2 calls $2.00, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $9.00, 3 folds, SB calls $8.00, 2 folds.

Flop: ($22.00) T♦, 4♥, T♠ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $26.00, Hero raises to $25.00 (All-In).

Turn: ($73.00) T♣
River: ($73.00) 7♥

Final Pot: $73.00

SB is a TAG and I expect him to make many bluffs on this board. I recently started to reduce the size of my cbets in order to make them cheaper and to give me more possible lines to choose (with a small cbet you can for example play b/f more often). On dry boards I think about 50-60% potsize is nice. On drawy boards I prefer 60-70% PS, always considering my remaining stack which of course determines the implied odds I give my opponent. If I have a bigger stack I will therefore still bet stronger so that my opponent can't draw profitable on me.
This board is very dry so about 50% potsize is perfect. Another positive side effect is maybe that we can increase the number of bluffs a bit since SB will see more foldequity if we bet small and have a bigger stack left. When we have overcards this is of course not desireable but against very aggressive opponents it can make it easier for us to play b/c even with overcards on such paired boards.
Since I expect many bluffs or at least many c/raises with smaller PPs I play b/c here.

Hand 2:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;MP1$400.90:145/49/8/0.2/42/54/17/48;Hero$98.70:///////;[/tg]
2/4 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with T♦, T♥
UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $4.00, 3 folds, Hero raises to $18.00, 2 folds, MP1 calls $14.00.

Flop: ($42.00) 6♠, Q♠, 2♦ (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $27, MP1 calls $27.00.

Turn: ($96.00) 7♣ (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($96.00) T♠ (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $53.70 (All-In), MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $149.70

Imo I made a mistake here with checking the turn (and pushing the river). This is still a good spot for a 2nd Barrel. In particular against a quite loose opponent who could call with many holdings on the flop (all PPs, a flushdraw, a gutshot overcard(s), bootom and middlepairs...). In fact the only hands beating us are Qx and sets of 66s and 22s and maybe 76.

How much foldequity do we need for a profitable push?

96 : 53.70 = 1.79:1 which equals at least 36% needed FE.
But even if we get called we can often be in front. A fish will definetely call with a flushdraw and very often also with 6x. This will of course increase our EV in addition.

Adv SSS Coaching - 06/11

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)     
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;BB$775.50:74/28/11/1.0/19/29/13/33;UTG+2$428.75:585/26/9/0.7/29/40/24/46;Hero$190:///////;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7♠, 7♥
UTG+2 calls $10.00, 5 folds, Hero calls $5.00, BB checks.

Flop: ($30.00) T♥, 8♥, K♥ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets $20, 2 folds.

Final Pot: $50.00

Concerning this hand I got a question from the coaching channel why I didn't raise my pocket 77s here. Of course our equity against UTG2's limping range would justify a raise. However we have to ask us if we can use our equity advantage OOP against the loose UTG2. Unless we hit a set or face no overcards we will make a cbet on the flop but will have a very unpleasant spot on the turn if we get called - and this is very likely. UTG2 will call our preflopraise IP with a loose range and if you take a look at his WTS you will see that he will also call the cbet IP quite loose.
Therefore I prefer to complete with 5:1 odds on setvalue. If BB isn't very aggressive we will see the flop for a cheap prize and have a big stack left to get a payout if we hit. Nevertheless I would raise other hands like AT+ her. They usually have more outs than the pocket pair. As a result we will also be able to 2nd barrel the turn more often.
On the flop our flushdraw is worth nothing against two => c/f

Stay tight OOP against loose opponents even if you think you're in front against their limping range. They will call our raise frequently and without cbet succes we wont make profit!

Hand 2:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;CO$200:5964/18/7/0.7/23/39/12/52;Hero$70.50:///////;UTG+2$146.35:292/38/17/3.0/29/26/6/52;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7♠, 9♥
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $2.00, 3 folds, CO calls $2.00, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($7.00) 6♥, 3♠, 9♦ (3 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG+2 calls $5.00, CO folds.

Turn: ($17.00) 8♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG+2 calls $10.00.

River: ($37.00) 7♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $12, Hero calls $12.00.

Final Pot: $61.00

In a freeplay we flop toppair against two. We also have doubled up recently. On the flop you have to decide wether to bet or not. If you do so, you will often face a call and will often have to make 2nd barrels ect.
I made a bet here since both players have a very loose limping range and in addition they are aggressiv enough to assume that strong hands are unlikely here.
I see UTG2 calling the flop quite loose. So I made a 2nd barrel. With a normal stack we could also think of a c/r AI (against an opponent who bets his draws/marginal hands) but with this big stack it is better to bet again.
On the river we have a twopair. Now another bet is not appropriate. If we get raised we have a tough spot, he will fold many worse hands on this scary board and many draws have already arrived. Nevertheless we have a good hand here. If we play c/c we use the high aggression of our opponent. He will bet with many hands and since its a 4connected board he can also try to bluff us.

If you have a big stack you will have to think about turn and riverplay more than usual. Try to include the information you have about your opponent (stats, preflop/postflop action, reads...) in order to determine the best line. The basic lines won't create good profit.

Nice one! Keep up the good work!

Adv SSS Coaching - 06/18

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;Hero$37:///////;BB$200:6110/21/7/0.5/25/43/12/50;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with J♣, 9♥
6 folds, Hero raises to $6.00, SB folds, BB calls $4.00.

Flop: ($13.00) A♣, 2♣, T♥ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB calls $8.00.

Turn: ($29.00) A♦ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $23 (All-In), BB folds.

Final Pot: $52.00

Villain is MANH60, kind of a regular fish and he folds to cbets in about 54%.

Flop cbet is against such a loose opponent standard. Even though he is quite loose his big preflop callingrange justifies the bet. The turn is a nice card for us to bluff again (even though the 2nd Ace in the board makes it even more unlikely that I have it, most players get scared by it...)
If I now take into account that he could have called the Flop with some PPs, a flushdraw, KQ/KJ/QJ I think I have enough FE for the 2nd barrel. He could also sometimes fold a weak then, btw.
Especially against not-deeply-thinking players this spot is just fine for it.

Hand 2:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;UTG+1$98.79:31/39/3/0.1/33/67/40/50;Hero$40:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7♦, 6♣
UTG+1 calls $2.00, 7 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5.00) 5♥, 5♠, 7♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG+1 calls $4.00.

Turn: ($13.00) J♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2, Hero calls $2.00.

River: ($17.00) T♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: $17.00

Flop is again standard. On the turn I have to ask me if I still have a value bet. Imo its better to stop betting and to play c/c at least one time. Therefore some worse hands like lower PPs or pure/semibluffs could still make a bet. If I'm behind I also don't loose much money.
With reads you could also bet a 2nd time if you face a loose-passive opponent who's raise is an easy fold for us.

Hand 3:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;Hero$35.80:///////;MP2$148.25:///////;SB$72.90:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A♦, K♠
UTG+1 calls $2.00, Hero raises to $9.00, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $9.00, 3 folds, SB calls $8.00, 2 folds.

Flop: ($31.00) 2♣, 2♥, 9♦ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $26.80 (All-In), 2 folds.

Final Pot: $57.80

Usually we don't push here against 2 opponents. In this case I'm though playing against two quite loose opponents (I have no hands but I've seen them with very loose hands on the showdown before)
In addition there aren't many hands where we haven't got 6 Overcard outs left (x2, 99, A9, K9). So even if I get called by another PP I have a good remaining equity. Key point is however that the biggest part of loose callers doesn't consist of PPs. And they could still call me here with other overcard holdings where I still make a valuebet!
I also risk less than the pot which will decrease the needed foldequity again.

Originally posted by xarry2
Adv SSS Coaching - 05/28

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;CO$271.14:1053/17/1/1.1/36/51/19/66;Hero$37.85:///////;[/tg]
1/2 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K♥, A♦
UTG+2 calls $2.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $9.00, CO calls $9.00, 4 folds.

Flop: ($23.00) 8♥, 4♦, 3♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $14, CO calls $14.00.

Turn: ($51.00) 5♥ (2 players)
Hero ???

Other reads: CO folds to a cbet in 54%

Hi Xarry,
sorry for quoting such an hold post. I have a question: here I appreciated your explanation on unimproved turn play but look at the flop play.
We have a pot of 23$ and a remaining stack which is around 29$.
We are teaching as basic SSS coaches to contibet allin when your remaining stack is less than 1,5 times the pot, or "contibet 2/3 pot and go allin when you have to bet more than half the remaining stack".
So what's the point here?
not enough FE + equity for such an overbet?

Also: you mentioned reducing the size of your contibets, can you explain why a bit better?

Thank you in advance

you're right. I could push directly here. especially since I will often have my 6 remaining overcard outs left when I get called. Maybe we should not forget that the pot was raked before. so we actually had a 21$ pot on the flop (we could still push there which I would often recommend to beginners here)
Nevertheless I recently started to try playing b/f more often rather than pushing. This is more complicated but often more profitable (especially if we face opponents where a normal cbet creates the same FE as the direct push) Since this is an older hand I also didn't reduce my cbet size. On such a board I would bet about 55% PS. So 11 or 12 $. I can thus play b/f more often. Smaller cbets are cheaper and often create the same FE. Besides they give me more possibilities for my actions.
To sum up I would push this hand directly if I face a postflop loose opponent who will often try to outplay me through his position advantage. Thus I can see Turn and River. Otherwise I would often have to give up the turn even though I could often be ahead (against a float e.g.)
Against (weak) opponents who fold quite a lot to cbets I prefer the normal cbet. As I said before it's cheaper but has almost the same effect against them.
In addition I will mostly face such a strong range on the turn so that I don't have to wonder wether to 2nd barrel or not.

thank you for your answer.
I would be very happy if you add me on msn/skype (il_poz@hotmail.com/il_poz). I'd like to ask you some questions about my coaching sessions for the italian community.

Thanks in advance

Adv SSS Coaching - 06/25

Question from the channel:

Should I check my Monsters after a CO Blind Post, since many players raise me then?

I wouldn't recommend to always check them in this spot. I use the CO post very often to make a cheap stealraise if I can be first in. If I don't raise my strong hands there I would of course get less credit for my steals and will be raised/called more often.
Nevertheless it is sometimes a decent spot to set up a trap. If you face opponents who always raise if you check after a post this can be a possible deviation. In future you maybe won't get raised so frequently if you check. But as always I recommend to find a good (and dynamic!) mix of different lines in order to keep it all balanced.

Hand 1:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;Hero$200:///////;MP3$881.84:127/18/10/3.3/12/45/27/100;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T♣, T♥
2 folds, Hero raises to $35.00, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $110.00, 5 folds.

Final Pot: $160.00

In this hand I get raised by a TAG. I haven't got many hands from him but nevertheless I can put him on some possible ranges:

- JJ+, AK if he knows that I'm playing SSS and adjusts his reraising range to my tight open raising range

- TT+, AQ+ which would imo be the standard reraising range from an aggressive TAG vs MP1 open raises

- 99+, AJs, AQ+ would be possible but is without further reads very loose imo

Equity against these ranges:

vs JJ+, AK: 33,7%
vs TT+, AQ+: 40,3%
vs 99+, AJs, AQ+: 44,9%

Let's now take a look at the pot odds in order to determine when we can call.

200+35+12 / 165 = 1.5 : 1 which equals 40% break even equity.

Against the first range we have an easy fold. Against the second we could call with a very marginal edge. Now I want to calculate the EV of such a call and discuss it considering that the variance is immense and that we haven't got many hands from MP3.

EV = 247$*0.403 - 165$*0.597 = +1.036$ or 0.1BB!!!!

I don't like such calls. I rather want to make a weak fold than calling for very marginal profit with high variance and less information.

Against the third range our EV would be:

EV = 247*0.449 - 165*0.551 = 19.998$ or 2BB

If this range was mare likely and if I had more hands I would call here. If I consider that I will probably only play against these range in 10-20% our winnings decrease againt to 0.2-0.4BB.

Rather make a weak fold than a close call!

Hand 2:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)        
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;Hero$160:///////;UTG+1$310:248/21/6/0.4/27/57/24/64;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K♠, A♠
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $20.00, Hero raises to $70.00, 7 folds, UTG+1 calls $50.00.

Flop: ($145.00) 5♥, 6♠, 3♠ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $30, Hero raises to $90.00 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $60.00.

Turn: ($335.00) A♣
River: ($335.00) Q♠

Final Pot: $325.00

In this hand I deviated from my normal reraising strategy which is: always go all-in if a normal reraise costs more than 35-40% of your stack. I do this especially if I play against bad players. I just made the experience that their calling range greatly loosens up if raise normal. And there won't be many problems postflop. With a small remaining stack and against a looser calling range we are commited anyway - but we managed to get money in the pot from many worse hands that would have folded otherwise.
Exceptionally I will show the results. Just to proove what I said... ♦

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows [ Ks, As ] a flush, Ace high
UTG+1 shows [ 7s, 6d ] a pair of Sixes
Hero wins $332 USD with a flush, Ace high.

Adv SSS Coaching - 07/02

Because there we're actually not many intereting hands yesterday I want to deal with an interesting question from the coaching channel. I posted an older review together with some hands.

"Today I had AKo and a callingstation called my raise from early and the flop was s.th. like 7QT, and then he raised half pot size, was it ok to go all in? the flop was rainbow or should I have been more careful because the calling station raised?"

To give a detailed answer I would need more information about the opponent for example. Nevertheless I think that the board is usually a good spot to reraise donkbets. We have overcard outs and a gutshot. Usually many opponents donk boards where theres no ace or king more often and also with a looser range. However key point is imo your remaining stack and the size of the donkbet. You should at least have a stack which is as big as 3times the donkbet in order to achieve some foldequity which usually gives us the biggest profit.
For more information just take a look at this thread. Its a very detailed explanation of how to play against donkbets as preflopaggressor.

How should we play against these donkbets?

We should always bear in mind the following aspects:

1. our opponent (stats, history, reads...)
2. the board
3. our hand

In addition related aspects are: betsize, our remaining stack, foldequity in case we raise the donkbet

our opponent:

Classifying our opponent is indispensable for a correct decision. Do we play against a TAG/LAG or a tight and passive opponent?
Answering this question helps us to evaluate how often and with which range our counterpart makes donkbets. Further we can think of possible motivations. The most important figure is imo the AF. Obviously aggressive players will place donkbets more often than passive ones. I also think that estimating our opponents flop range through the Vpip and Pfr and his position is essential. How to use this information will be explained together with the board. As always specific reads and notes concerning donkbets will also help us immensely.

the board:

After we've classified our opponent we can combine the information we got together with the board and thus conclude to a possible range for his donkbet. The looser we estimate our opponents range on the flop the more possibilities there are to hit the flop anyhow. We can't rely on the fact that theres a flushdraw possible for a donkbet if we play against a tight or passive player. First passive players don't donk frequently with draws and moreover a tight player won't call us preflop with many speculatibe hands i.e. suited connectors.
Possible motivations for a donkbet in relation to the board are:

- a board that we as PFA have often missed will motivate our opponent to make either bets with marginal hands or draws (since he sees foldequity) or even pure bluff bets
- boards which give many possibilities to draws or are simply in the estimated range of our opponent can also be likely for donkbets

How far the different motivations are true depends on the level of thinking sides our opponent. Very good players can be a tough challenge here. Fortunately donkbets are used mostly by bad or mediocre players.

our hand:

As I said before I refer to situations where we haven't hit the flop. So we will have hands who have less than 6 Outs or maybe a marginal hand. Of course a raise gets more profitable if we have a good remaining equity if our raise gets called. That's why I prefer to raise with Overcards or a medium pair plus gutshot rather than with an unimproved pocketpair.

At last we should think of our foldequity. In order to create foldequity we should have a remaining stack big enough to create foldequity. If our opponent gets better pot odds than 2.5:1 he can call profitable very often. However it is always important how big the donkbet is compared to the pot. If we face a potsize donkbet it symbolizes much more strenght than a 1/4 bet. Thus the foldequity is also dependant on the betsize.

Let's now look at 2 sample hands in order to illustrate the aspects mentionend above:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)       
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;MP2$338.81:57/47/9/3.1/47/67/0/57;Hero$190:///////;[/tg]
5/10 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with J♠, Q♠
3 folds, MP2 calls $10.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $45.00, 2 folds, MP2 calls $35.00.

Flop: ($105.00) 5♦, 6♥, 2♠ (2 players)
MP2 bets $30, Hero raises to $145.00 (All-In), MP2 calls $115.00.

Turn: ($395.00) 9♠
River: ($395.00) 3♦

Final Pot: $395.00

I try to isolate a pretty loose player in position. He donks weak on the lowcard flop. Lets analyze the situation according to what I said above.
We play against a loose player who is also pretty aggressive postflop. That's why I can give him a wide range for a limp/call and also a wide range for the donkbet, which speaks for a reraise. MP2 is however a player with a high WTS which means that our foldequity is not very good. Nevertheless his Vpip and AF justify a reraise imo.
The board also gives good reasons for a donkbet. Thus his range can be from many draws, medium pairs top pairs weak overpairs or even pure bluffs.
Our hand is also suitable for a reraise. We can have up to 6 overcard outs and we have a backdoor flushdraw.
Since MP2 bets weak and we have a good remaining stack we should also create enough foldequity with an all-in.

What is our ev?

possible donkbet range of MP2:
88-77,44-33,A6s-A2s,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s,53s,32s,A6o-A2o,97o+,86o+,75o+,64o,53o,32o

Of course individual reads can help us here. for example it would be interesting to know wether MP2 donks his strong hands (set, 2pair, straight) here, too.

the foldequity is pretty variable:

a tight calling range could be: 88-77,A6s-A5s,87s,A6o-A5o,87o which equals 75% foldequity and we have 35% equity when we get called

EV = 0.75*135 + 0.25[0.35*(145+105) - 0.65*145] = 99.5$

This is extremely profitable. However we will have to take a look at other constellations, too:

another calling range could be: 88-77,44-33,A6s-A4s,86s+,76s,64s,A6o-A5o,86o+,76o,64o which equals 50% foldequity and we have 30% equity when we get called

EV = 0.50*135 + 0.50[0.30*(145+105) - 0.70*145] = 54.25$

another quite loose calling range could be: 88-77,44-33,A6s-A2s,86s+,76s,64s,A6o-A2o,86o+,76o,64o which equals around 32% foldequity and we have 29% equity when we get called

EV = 0.32*135 + 0.68[0.29*(145+105) - 0.71*145] = 22.5$

So even with a pretty loose calling range our EV is positive. However it is key that MP2 has such a big donkbet range. Otherwise will have even less foldequity and less remaining equity.
I also didn't include pure bluffs in this hand which will of course increase the foldequity again.

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)        
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;UTG+2$113.22:70/55/8/1.8/29/0/0/25;Hero$42.70:///////;[/tg]
1/3 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9♥, A♥. MP3 posts a blind of $3.00.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $2.00, 2 folds, MP3 checks, Hero raises to $12.00, 3 folds, UTG+2 calls $10.00, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($30.00) Q♦, K♦, 2♠ (2 players)
UTG+2 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $40.00

Similar preflop situation as above but there are several aspects who don't speak for a reraise. Most important is imo the fact that we haven't got much equity left if we get called (mainly only 3 outs) Also our remainung stack can't create much foldequity when we raise the donkbet. Our opponent would get about 3:1 to a call which is simply too good. Also bluffbets aren't so likely as in the first hand since the board includes 2 cards from the playing zone which could easily be in our raising range. Not to forget that UTG2 is not that aggressive.

To sum up, we have seen that raising a donkbet can be very profitable under specific circumstances. However these situations are not very frequent and it is important to think of all the factors I mentionend above befor making the raise. Moreover, I think that you should have enough reads/notes/stats from your opponent to make a halfway correct decision.
If your raise gets called once and you have to show a weak hand your foldequity will also decrease in future.