Big downswing

    • Kokuruz
      Kokuruz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2014 Posts: 50
      Hello guys.

      I need your help for the last 24 hours a had a huge downswing and lost roughly 20% of my BR and I would like you guys to tell me how to go over my hands to look at some hands altho this is 5NL and I lost such amount cuz of people really making so wierd plays.

      But I won't be here to cry to you about what happened.

      I want to know what are the general questions and maybe even some not so frequent questions that you guys ask yourself when reviewing your hands.

      And I kinda don't have the ability to think inside the game im like a robot but the problem might also be that I don't know what to question myself at certain spots.

      Any tips on what to do to kinda force myself thinking during my session because I guess my brain can currently only do way ahead/way behind stuff.
  • 14 replies
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      Hi, Kokuruz...
      I assume you have HM2 or PT4?

      If so, filter for hands were you lost more than 50BB.
      Look at each in the replayer.
      Would you do the same thing again? If so, pass that one by for now.

      If you're not sure, post that hand for evaluation in the Hand Evaluation forums or Hand Discussion forums.

      Do you have Equilab? It is very useful for analyzing your equity in various spots.

      Once you've done the "Biggest Losers" pass, have a look at hands where you folded just because you had no idea what to do. Post those.

      That should get you started...

      Best of luck,
      --VS
    • Kokuruz
      Kokuruz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2014 Posts: 50
      Already did that contacted a my friend who is a high stakes player and we went through the hands.

      In general it was ok had 5+ hands with set over set and like 3 hands where I totally F it up.

      He gave me this tip.

      Don't make a 4000€ waranty on your car which is worth 100€.
      In poker this should mean don't make a hero call where villlian makes a huge overbet when you have invested only a few blinds in the pot.
    • Rihard4a
      Rihard4a
      Gold
      Joined: 08.09.2010 Posts: 2,038
      Big pots matter less than small pots when looking for leaks. Why? Because big pots are usually standard situations, i.e. set vs set, flush vs straight, AA vs KK and so on... And as a poker player you don't really make all your money from the big pots, majority of the winnings come from the smaller pots.
    • TinoLaan
      TinoLaan
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2011 Posts: 6,411
      Moved this to our Learn to Win section :)
    • Kokuruz
      Kokuruz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2014 Posts: 50
      Originally posted by Rihard4a
      Big pots matter less than small pots when looking for leaks. Why? Because big pots are usually standard situations, i.e. set vs set, flush vs straight, AA vs KK and so on... And as a poker player you don't really make all your money from the big pots, majority of the winnings come from the smaller pots.
      So if I were to record my session lets say 45 min, would anyone go through it and comment if my small pots are okay? (btw I think they aren't because my redline kinda sucks)
    • VorpalF2F
      VorpalF2F
      Super Moderator
      Super Moderator
      Joined: 02.09.2010 Posts: 8,901
      OK, so if we're skipping over the big hand analysis (and Rihard4a is technically right -- you play far more small pots than big ones. It's just that if you have big pot leaks, plugging those first saves you a ton right off the bat).


      So which is it?
      Filter your stats to show only pots won/lost > 50 BB.
      What is your winrate?

      No filter for the reverse?
      How does the winrate compare?

      If you really are losing more on small pots, then on to small pots.

      For those, look at your overall stats.

      In HM2 show the position report. How do you fare position by position?
      What is your vpip/pfr for each position?

      Just out of curiosity, how many hands are we looking at?
      Less than 50K won't mean much.
      What stakes do you play?

      Cheers,
      --VS
    • seacat22
      seacat22
      Silver
      Joined: 10.08.2013 Posts: 275
      have you set a a stop loss?
    • Kokuruz
      Kokuruz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2014 Posts: 50
      Yes I do have a stop loss. This downswing was over many sessions.

      Anyway here is one hand:

      My thoughts after reviewing it:
      -when villian donks half pot and I raise his cbet and he 3bets I thinks its a fold since his AF is 2.9

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.91 (118.2 bb)
      BB: $6.25 (125 bb)
      UTG: $6.24 (124.8 bb)
      MP: $4.91 (98.2 bb)
      CO: $5 (100 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $14.61 (292.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7 7
      2 folds, CO calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, CO calls $0.15

      Flop: ($0.47) 2 3 2 (2 players)
      CO bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.70, CO raises to $1.30, Hero calls $0.60

      Turn: ($3.07) Q (2 players)
      CO bets $1.50, Hero folds

      Results:
      $3.07 pot ($0.13 rake)
      Final Board: 2 3 2 Q
      CO mucked and won $2.94 ($1.44 net)
      Hero mucked 7 7 and lost (-$1.50 net)
    • AlvisR
      AlvisR
      Bronze
      Joined: 27.02.2009 Posts: 656
      Originally posted by Kokuruz
      Yes I do have a stop loss. This downswing was over many sessions.

      Anyway here is one hand:

      My thoughts after reviewing it:
      -when villian donks half pot and I raise his cbet and he 3bets I thinks its a fold since his AF is 2.9

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $5.91 (118.2 bb)
      BB: $6.25 (125 bb)
      UTG: $6.24 (124.8 bb)
      MP: $4.91 (98.2 bb)
      CO: $5 (100 bb)
      Hero (BTN): $14.61 (292.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7 7
      2 folds, CO calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.20, 2 folds, CO calls $0.15

      Flop: ($0.47) 2 3 2 (2 players)
      CO bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.70, CO raises to $1.30, Hero calls $0.60

      Turn: ($3.07) Q (2 players)
      CO bets $1.50, Hero folds

      Results:
      $3.07 pot ($0.13 rake)
      Final Board: 2 3 2 Q
      CO mucked and won $2.94 ($1.44 net)
      Hero mucked 7 7 and lost (-$1.50 net)
      AF of this means he calls 1 time while donking, betting xraising 3 times more often. It just means he dont like to call.. he is aggressive yes. I would call flop and see the turn. if he still pushes pressure on you its a fold. + you should check WTSD and W$WSF. as rihard mentioned its all about small pots so dont bloat pot in here. you would save 10bb by playing as i said instead of your way 22bb better NONSD line for you.
    • Kokuruz
      Kokuruz
      Bronze
      Joined: 08.07.2014 Posts: 50
      was reading through that cash game student blog here on PS and it kinda opened my eyes.
      I would usually Cbet like OOP with lets say KQo on 987 board just because I would think that I have to do it even tho it might be vs a loose passive opponent or one that rarely folds to Cbets.
      Another reason why I was Cbeting is like well if I hit my 6 outer I will get so much more from that guy.

      Now I always ask myself:"Why should I bet? What do I achieve by betting here? Generally OOP I only Cbet with atleast a pair or some draw. If you have nothing its better to just give up the hand.

      Anything I'm missing?
    • BarryCarter
      BarryCarter
      Headadmin
      Headadmin
      Joined: 13.01.2011 Posts: 4,963
      Great thread, we featured it here:

      http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/content/87167/
    • KingKas
      KingKas
      Diamond
      Joined: 30.06.2012 Posts: 369
      20% of the BR is not a huge downswing. I just reached NL10 and started it with losing half my BR ^.^

      But downswing depends on the volume you play. I play around 5k+ hands a day, so losing a few Buyins is normal to me. If you only play 1k hands a day, obviously it seems like a whole month of loss.

      Just keep going, I think stoploss is nonsense. Just use proper BRM, and you won't need stoploss. :)
    • joey1toe
      joey1toe
      Bronze
      Joined: 12.10.2010 Posts: 370
      Just keep going, I think stoploss is nonsense. Just use proper BRM, and you won't need stoploss.


      I respectfully disagree. I think stoploss may or may not be nonsense depending on the player, personally I use it to discipline myself and to avoid tilting (as I'm quite prone to it) and it works :)
    • ikkvr
      ikkvr
      Bronze
      Joined: 19.12.2012 Posts: 995
      its very normal keep playin gl