[Closed] -$800 total, bye poker.

I am sorry to hear that but man making 100% ICM decisions or 89% ICM decisions is big difference to start with. I make 90% ICM decisions and thats just not good enought lol. I played 1k 1$ SNGs to try that out and was break even so you should first learn to make 100% ICM decision i am sure that alone would boost you ROI% for 5% up.

I mean is bad and sad but your ROI% is bad:
-2% at 1$
-17%!!!! at 2$
-9% at 5$
-14% at 10$!

I mean just calculate a bit. -17% ROI at 2$ with 0,4$ rake makes you lose 0,24$ because of rake(0,16$ you get rake back) +0,34$ with that ROI =0,58$!!!

That means losing 0,58$ for every 2$SNG you enter!!!!

I mean you just thought you are god or what playing 16 SNGs at times since you make enought of good decisions(as you think). Well let me tell you sth. I make same mistake- I AM ALSO LAZY AT LEARNING!!! But still i at least stopped playing more tables that i can handle and is obvious you can not handle 16 tables. I mean you should start with lets say 6 maybe 8 16 is for someone who have at least 10% ROI over 5k sample size i think.

Good luck in your real life but remember is hard to get far by shortcut. Ofcourse some make it that way to but far less than those that try to improve their knowledge first,

slikec

when using ICM trainer i get 89-90%, i mainly have trouble with pushing SB into BB in some instances.

regardless, most of my games are "perfect" ICM according to SnG wizard. i think the problem with ICM trainer is that it is programmed to display marginal situations...

also, sharkscope already takes into account rake.

also, i've tried any combination of tables. tried playing 4 tables at a time to focus on reads etc, i find i play slightly better, but i still lose money(played 40 games over 2 days with this method for a total of -8% ROI which is a small improvement)

i've spent probably about half the amount of time i've been at the tables again just reading articles/reviewing my game etc etc.(i.e. i've probably played 40 hours poker, 20 hours reading/reviewing/finding out where i went wrong)

its quite annoying when people tell me im "taking shortcuts." i've never been good at sticking to things, and it took alot of effort to stay at the tables for the amount of time i did whilst not making more mistakes due to fatigue etc.

as it is, after comparing my session to another user on this forum, i've found we both make about the same amount of mistakes in game, and yet he has a 25% ROI on $5 SnG's over 400 games.

final edit:
the amount of insight i gain from playing 4 tables vs 16 tables is so negligible as to not be worth it. for the most part i can remember some necessary reads in all 16 tables at once(at least for the players to me left and right, as well as interesting things like someone shoving twice in a row preflop in 10/20 blinds etc)

You seem to be doing something wrong. Sharkscope graph looks like quite typical loosing player graph. There must be something wrong in your game. I dont know what could it be unfortunatelly. When i played low buyin SNGs i pushed quite loose and often lost because of that - i adjusted my play and started pushing much tighter. That improved my results. I think i was pushing tighter than ICM would suggest but well.. that worked for me.

And really - if you loose money stop playing on 16 tables. That just makes no sense imo. Focus on less games and try to improve your game. You shouldnt be playing more games just because you can click fast enough. You should play more tables when you see you beat your opponents, which you clearly cant atm.

The problem with coachings is that coaches are not good players themselves. I watch World poker tour and Gus Hansen, Lolina, Phil Ivey, David Benjamine and Patrik Antonius online. And when I compare it with coaches there...

Other point is you have to read game of your oponents. Sometimes should be worth to go all in with 23s when you have feeling for the game. But when you have some charts and table of correct decisions, you are more readable.

So its not completely crap, you have to mix it up. You have to develop your own game style which can differ from tables which are predictable. And even myselve dont know if I will not move to 1000/2000 limit poker has no sense to me=))

Originally posted by Grimzor
You seem to be doing something wrong. Sharkscope graph looks like quite typical loosing player graph. There must be something wrong in your game. I dont know what could it be unfortunatelly. When i played low buyin SNGs i pushed quite loose and often lost because of that - i adjusted my play and started pushing much tighter. That improved my results. I think i was pushing tighter than ICM would suggest but well.. that worked for me.

And really - if you loose money stop playing on 16 tables. That just makes no sense imo. Focus on less games and try to improve your game. You shouldnt be playing more games just because you can click fast enough. You should play more tables when you see you beat your opponents, which you clearly cant atm.

that depends on the definition of beating your opponent.

if its "im losing money, therefore im not beating my opponent" then i guess you are right.

But the way i see it, if i am making +EV decisions through the entire game, then i am beating my opponents. basically, as far as i can tell, its coming down to luck(SnG wizard seems to agree with me there)

ill give you a few examples... these are the last couple of hands i have shoved in no particular order.(will be typed as i cant seem to access pokertracker at the moment).

blinds are 50/100

Hero is on Big Blind with approx 1450 chips
Villian is on CO with approx 1800 chips

hero dealt 3 :spade:Q
2 folds, CO limps, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

flop dealt: Q :spade:J :club:3
hero bets 300. CO calls, SB folds

turn dealt: 9
hero bets 1050(all in) villain calls 1050

river dealt: K
Villian shows KQ(2 pair)
hero shows Q2(2 pair)

Pot sized bet the flop because a) multi way pot, and b) this villain loved to play his suited connectors and any 2 face cards so KT/9T was well within his range(i'd played about 10 games with this guy before that i remember)

and in a different tournament:

6max SnG, 5 players left. blinds 100/200

Hero dealt AQo in CO position.
1 fold, hero raises to 1650(all in) 1 fold, SB calls 910(all in), 1 fold.

long story short...

FLOP: 2 2 2

TURN: K

RIVER: J

villain shows KTo

2 hands later, and i have 3 BB's left.
SB has around 1000 in chips and is the next smallest shorty after me

HERO is on BB with 440(200 in the big blind)

HERO is dealt QTs

4 folds, SB completes, Hero pushes all in for 640, SB calls.

SB has KTs.

This wouldnt sound so bad, but this is exactly what happens in easily >50% of my tournaments. all of my descisions are +EV, QT was ahead of SB's open complete range(which was around 75%) as he seemed to love to open complete and bet any flop.

Also, i find that i am only getting slightly better reads on my opponents when i am 4 tabling compared to when i am 16 tabling(note, im usually at around 12-13, i can never seem to get a full 16 up coz Ipoker is very quiet until late at night in australia)
regardless, im 99% certain that my problem does not lie in the amount of tables i have open.

EDIT: im sure ive seen a program somewhere that makes a graph of "all in luck." if i can find it, ill post my graph, if it works for tournaments.

ICM is not a holy grail, its a tool to use in your end game. but the start and middle are also important first off deal with all parts of your game not just ICM, which in my opinion is not a perfect science as it takes average folding ranges of your opponents which are just not real, and with sitngo wizard even if you change the ranges you have to know you have them correct for each opponent.
as much as I think to be at 95%plus ICM accurate to big advantage its still not enough to guarantee success.
how do i make my comments you ask? Im A LOSING PLAYER AT SITNGOS ICM 95PLUS. so there just has to be more:)

Originally posted by Alafoe
The problem with coachings is that coaches are not good players themselves. I watch World poker tour and Gus Hansen, Lolina, Phil Ivey, David Benjamine and Patrik Antonius online. And when I compare it with coaches there...

Other point is you have to read game of your oponents. Sometimes should be worth to go all in with 23s when you have feeling for the game. But when you have some charts and table of correct decisions, you are more readable.

So its not completely crap, you have to mix it up. You have to develop your own game style which can differ from tables which are predictable. And even myselve dont know if I will not move to 1000/2000 limit poker has no sense to me=))

This might be the biggest crap i have ever read... seriously...

Coaches are winning players, some of them very good players. Yes, they might not be bracelet winners and top pros but they know the game well enough.

About that watching WPT part i loled... I just watched James Bond movie - it had poker in it. He just beat the crap out of opponents. Played way better than coaches here, think i should learn from him instead.

Didnt get your last part about that 1k/2k limit part at all. Wanna tell us you play on such limit? i have serious trouble believing it, you are welcome to prove me wrong. Would love that to be true tbh.

In fact I am playing on the 0.05/0.1 LIMIT HOLD EM now =)) I only wanted to state that my goal is to get to 1000/2000 limit, high buy-in tournaments and maybe after some time high limit NL HOLD EM.

I only wanted to state that I have to decide between poker and carier líke scientist or programmer and definitely for me would not be goal to beat 20/40 limit hold em even if I am faaaaaaaaar away from that limit already.

I tried to watch some coachings and when I tried to discuss some hands with coaches, they stated that they thing better is to play according to tables=)) Than I watched some NL SNGs and I can not believe if the coach is drunk.

So I am now definitelly low limit player but triing to buid up bankroll at least 1000000 and start real poker... And think in this goal could not help me coaches here so much. I am not discus that they are winning players.

So for me every piece of poker even in coachings would be great but definitely the reason is to watch average players to play and teach myself how possibly owerplay their game. But I can not overvaluate this.

In fact I think many pros have reserves in their games and I allways try to spot them.

Sorry to read this samesa, it's like looking me at a mirror 7 months ago where nothing at all worked, now i think (hope) that i lost 90% of my bankroll because of bad game.

@Alafoe:

Originally posted by Alafoe
The problem with coachings is that coaches are not good players themselves. I watch World poker tour and Gus Hansen, Lolina, Phil Ivey, David Benjamine and Patrik Antonius online. And when I compare it with coaches there...

patrick antonius, phil ivey , gus hansen don't play low limits sit&go , I see a lot of hansen's wannabe and they are the reason i'm not broke right now.

Other point is you have to read game of your oponents. Sometimes should be worth to go all in with 23s when you have feeling for the game. But when you have some charts and table of correct decisions, you are more readable.

lots of people don't know what they're doing at micro limits , ¿how many will know how to read your game? by the way, poker "by feeling" is crap, if you are shoving 23s you need a very specific reason to do so. there will be spots where pushing 23s is +ev but don't push it because you can feel it.

So its not completely crap, you have to mix it up. You have to develop your own game style which can differ from tables which are predictable. And even myselve dont know if I will not move to 1000/2000 limit poker has no sense to me=))

you can mix it up, but not at limit 0.05/0.1 , i think i read tribunceasar saying that mixing it up is a good idea at NL100+

So I am now definitelly low limit player but triing to buid up bankroll at least 1000000 and start real poker... And think in this goal could not help me coaches here so much. I am not discus that they are winning players.

interesting , so your goal is to make a huge bankroll playing low limit poker and then going to "real" poker , i think that's not a good idea, making that jump in stakes instead of going through the levels.

k, whatever works for you... good luck!

Originally posted by Alafoe
The problem with coachings is that coaches are not good players themselves. I watch World poker tour and Gus Hansen, Lolina, Phil Ivey, David Benjamine and Patrik Antonius online. And when I compare it with coaches there...

Other point is you have to read game of your oponents. Sometimes should be worth to go all in with 23s when you have feeling for the game. But when you have some charts and table of correct decisions, you are more readable.

So its not completely crap, you have to mix it up. You have to develop your own game style which can differ from tables which are predictable. And even myselve dont know if I will not move to 1000/2000 limit poker has no sense to me=))

There are coaches on this site are several hundred thousand dollars plus against David Benyamine and co. which does not really mean much though. If you try to compare the play on the high stakes to that of the low stakes you will quickly find yourself going nowhere at all.

If coaches are telling you to play in a certain way in low limit coachings its because that is the most effective way to play there

Rise in ranks and listen to some advanced coachings and you will see a whole different world

interesting , so your goal is to make a huge bankroll playing low limit poker and then going to "real" poker , i think that's not a good idea, making that jump in stakes instead of going through the levels.

Not really. I am going uplimits. Even yesterday I have played 0.02/0.04 and now I am up on 0.05/0.1. I am thinking about upmoving as soon as my bankroll is sufficient. But the problem will starts somewhere about 3/6 limit where is not so much 10 player tables on Titan poker.

ok, i'm not even thinking about limits as high as 3/6 i think on that high limits you have to play at different sites since the there aren't many tables.

The problem with coachings is that coaches are not good players themselves. I watch World poker tour and Gus Hansen, Lolina, Phil Ivey, David Benjamine and Patrik Antonius online. And when I compare it with coaches there...

♦ ♦ +1

@Semesa

Slikec actually wrote a good post

a) 90% in ICM trainer is pretty bad) good result starts from 95%. If you score 95% you can think of having a 0 grade on 0 to 5 scale)

b) 16 tabling is a bad idea ever. Start with 4 tables max. Even really good sng players don't play 16 tables)) 9 is usually a standard number.

c) reread articles 20 times, rewatch videos, visit coachings, post hands... learn... a lot of players on this forum played way more hands breakeven then you... and eventually they made it. You are obviously overestimating your skills.

d) About SNG wizard. I have a feeling that you don't fully understand the nature of ICM. SNG wiz can't tell you your mistakes with default settings. What appears to be a correct push against a tight player, can be totally wrong against a loose one. It all depends on player's ranges, which you have to learn to estimate.

Find a way to get a starting bankroll and restart, but this time concentrate on learning process, either then playing more hands.

Good luck

Maybe you should try playing tournaments. If you have any final table success your ROI will be very healthy. You do not need a very high S/R and if you are lucky enough to hit some 1st or 2nd positions you could be moving up the levels at a rapid rate of knots.

I became a member of Pokerstrategy about 3 months ago. I quickly turned my $50 into $4000 in the space of 5 weeks. This was largely helped by winning a $5 rebuy to the tune of $3900. I decided I would withdraw $3000 and leave myself a $900 bankroll. With this I have won a seat in one of the ECOOPIII finals and trying to win a few more...I DO NOT use any poker software, but I love all the articales and training on Pokerstrategy. I have learnt my own style of play over the last 4 years which has been further developed by this great site.

In a nutshell my advice is do not give up playing poker but to develop your OWN STYLE. You can have all the statistics in the world but they will NEVER teach you how to be a good, profit making poker player.

u lost 800$ and u want to stop poker. People lose several K in one night.....

Originally posted by mbrut
u lost 800$ and u want to stop poker. People lose several K in one night.....

This comment is just idiotic. For some ppl 800$ is a lot of money and on those limits its a lot of buyins.

mbrut, I guess you are ok with loosing millions of $ in poker, right? People loose that in a week or so on high stakes. It must be ok for you as well according to your logic.

no but 800$ is not really big sum nowdays

Originally posted by Semesa
i start out with my $125 bankroll on $5 games. within 1 night i am up to $330(i play 16 tables at once because i get bored with any less, and i played about 8 hours that night).

i figure this is about normal, i had around a 10-15% ROI according to pokertracker, and according to sit n go wizard i was making very few mistakes.

i go to sleep, the next day i wake up and start on $10 SnG's.
my BR is down to $200 within 15 SnG's... yes, i only made it ITM in 1 of my 15 SnG's played.
according to sit n go wizard i made 2 mistakes over all 15 games.

The bankroll management is horrible.

$5 + 0.50 x 16 games = $88.... started with BR of $125.... that's 2/3rds of BR at the table! 1 bad set and of course it's wiped out.... again, with the $10 games it about 1/2 BR at the tables....

Now I know PS suggests that 30 BI is ok to move up to the next level, but I don't like this... I play much more conservatively.... I first moved up to $5 with the $165 needed.... nearly lost it all.... second time I moved up was after a nice placing in MTT.... had bout $250.... lost more than 1/2.... after getting and seeing what other players/coaches do I have a strict policy for myself.... 75 BI at the next level and I start taking shots at it.... 100+ BI and I will play that level.... have finally now graduated to the $5 games AGAIN with a BR of $500+.... the biggest things I have found is that getting used to a downswing at a new level is touhter because the numbers are so much bigger, and the amounts get bigger.... it can severely affect some decisions you make.... expecially after a run of bad beats and suckouts....

Anyway thats what I thought, gl everyone....