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Folded set weak kicker to river overbet

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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

I thought he had pocket 55s was I correct in folding this was a tough fold for me

SB: $13.49
BB: $10.97
Hero (UTG): $5.00
CO: $10.34
BTN: $5.93

Pre Flop: ($0.12) Hero is UTG with A :heart: 3 :heart:
Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.15, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.55) 2 :spade: A :club: T :diamond: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.55) 5 :heart: (3 players)
SB bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45, BTN folds

River: ($1.45) A :spade: (2 players)
SB bets $2.15, Hero folds


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17 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

What's the reason for the flop check?


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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

Multi way weak hand


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Mw we bet when we have it.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by FrozenElf
Multi way weak hand

Plenty of Tx and broadway draws that will call though.


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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

Originally posted by nitrol
Mw we bet when we have it.

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by FrozenElf
Multi way weak hand

Plenty of Tx and broadway draws that will call though.

What we have is top pair weak kicker, if I bet here 3way all Tx will fold kq, kj qj might call, really the only hands I can see calling are hands hat beat us, the board is dry, if I check I disguise my hand and can get called by a Tx on the turn anyway, + induce small pocket pairs to bluff that would of folded to a bet on the flop, also im not playing for a big pot so by checking the flop im getting to showdown cheaper


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

All Tx will call you, nearly all broadways will call you too.
Yes, there can be hands that beat you but still bet is plus EV. And you do not give free cards to there hands.
We should try to extract value here as there are a lot of cards that can look scary to he them on turn and can stop the action.


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briccius
Joined: 26.06.2007

Nice hand imo.

I do not agree you have to bet flop here. Check is fine vs 2 players. You might even give up turn to big sb lead (you only beat bluffs or fish spews, and you have 1 player behind you still to act). On the river it is the same, you beat nothing, so good fold.

Mw we bet when we have it.

We have what? Top pair, no kicker is all we have. True, some broadway combos could call, but if that were the only concern, we might as well bet this flop with 33-99. :Tx: might call as well, but they are not going to call more than 1 or 2 streets anyway, so we can still bet later streets vs them.

Would we bet this flop with KK-JJ? Our hand is effectively the same hand strength as KK...

(the only difference being that with KK-JJ we would block many broadway combos in villains´calling range, and of course there are more aces in their range as well, so I agree betting with A3 is significantly better than betting with KK, still I am not convinced that it is a compulsory cbet).


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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

How is any turn card on that flop going to look scary for a Tx or broadways that haven't got anything anyway 22-99 will fold flop and how can you say Tx will call the flop with 2 players and A high board even a fish will say "2 players some1ns got an ace"


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briccius
Joined: 26.06.2007

I agree except 22 is not folding flop. Incidentally, some fish might call Tx, some might not, but I think the main point is whether you need to bet in order to charge the many BW combos in villains´ranges or if you can give a free card...

@ Nitrol: what do you do if you bet flop, get called in one spot and a blank hits the turn? You wanna bet again?

If a face card hits, do you want to give up?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I like to check when HU, but MW I prefer to bet flop.


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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

Originally posted by briccius
I agree except 22 is not folding flop. Incidentally, some fish might call Tx, some might not, but I think the main point is whether you need to bet in order to charge the many BW combos in villains´ranges or if you can give a free card...

@ Nitrol: what do you do if you bet flop, get called in one spot and a blank hits the turn? You wanna bet again?

If a face card hits, do you want to give up?

Yeah sorry my mistake 22 wouldn't fold flop, What does BW stand for?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Bw=Broadway.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by FrozenElf
if I bet here 3way all Tx will fold

lol it's NL5 no one is seeing a flop, making second pair and then folding.


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FrozenElf
Joined: 06.07.2015

Originally posted by MJPerry

Originally posted by FrozenElf
if I bet here 3way all Tx will fold

lol it's NL5 no one is seeing a flop, making second pair and then folding.

Its not about that, its about a persons thought process, and even a weak player will say 2 players someone has an Ace, if its J or Q high its different! And again I cant still get 1-2 bets on later streets.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Obv you're not going to get three streets of value but there is close to 0% chance your average NL5 player is folding KT or something to one bet.

I don't even think checking the flop is bad but it's lol to assume NL5 players are folding a pair on the flop.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Plus there are many cards that may look scary to villains on later streets and you may not get any value.
In addition, forums are full of crying players who say that poker rooms are cheating and when you look at their hands it is full of such in ehich they do not bet in mw pots, let the villains catch there outs and then on later streets do aggressive stuff for all their stacks.
Make them pay, I say... :)


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JCSeerup
Joined: 14.12.2010

Originally posted by MJPerry
Obv you're not going to get three streets of value but there is close to 0% chance your average NL5 player is folding KT or something to one bet.

I don't even think checking the flop is bad but it's lol to assume NL5 players are folding a pair on the flop.

we prolly need more information on villain to say so, nl5 player or not.


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