combo draw in limped pot

imo, u overplayed that hand.
Ur draw is not that strong as u may think (better flushes are totally possible, the straight draw is just a gs). No problem on calling once, since we have some implied odds and outs. But, raising here, imho, is a bit spewe.

Agree. We cannot raise here for value as your hand would already imply in the weak range and by not having actually value it wouldn't make much sense. I would have liked a call OTF as villain most probably wants to raise for value and, consequently, protect his hand by betting almost pot sized. If it happens you hit your flush/gutshot, you most probably will get paid off observing his range (sets, 5-6, 6-7, occasional J-Xs, Q-Xs)

Nothing wrong with taking the lead, still I would spare myself that weird thing on the turn

I don't like raising vs 2. Just call.
Spare your money on turn.

You have the odds to call after the raise ott.

In multiway pots, if we have a hand we want to continue playing with, we should donk.

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
You have the odds to call after the raise ott.

What about the reverse implied odds?

We have 12 not all clear outs and we cannot call, imo.

Are we not getting odds to call with just our flush outs?

Diamonds are almost certainly clean outs unless we think he's limping A9dd, bet/calling flop and raising turn which seems extremely unlikely. Maaaaaaaaybe he has AdJd and can take this line but come on.

Diamonds are girls best friend but not clean outs...
We are facing unknown (no stats provided) limp caller. He can have all flush combos in the deck and you are saying we're ok with our 72...
Do not agree.

When villain limp calls from utg, I think he can limp call anything. He can easily have higher FD. Villain can also have set, meaning 3d and Jd are not our outs

I definitely agree that how I played this hand was horrible since I was steaming, but I wanted to know just how to play such a hand in a limped pot. IMO leading or check-call OTF would be good. I think there are arguments for both, but check-calling is the better one since we don't get a lot of folds against limpers even in a 3way pot.

So far I have 3 hands on villain and all three he limp-called pre-flop, so I assume he has a wide limping range prop. even just anny two.
Since it's a fish he can even have a weak pair which he just can't fold OTF but it's verry likely that OTT he is strong.
What do you guys think his range looks like OTT?
My guess : anny two pair or set OTF, maybe even QQ+, JJ, AdJd, random J6 (occ. random J3 or J4)
(not putting the following in equilab since I have FD already and I don't think he would necessary raise OTT with these hands but still possible IMO: random turned JdXd, 5dXd and 3dXd.)
With this range we have 25% equity and we have pott odds of 19% so we should call if my constructed range is accurate.

Originally posted by la55i
When villain limp calls from utg, I think he can limp call anything. He can easily have higher FD. Villain can also have set, meaning 3d and Jd are not our outs

Originally posted by nitrol
Diamonds are girls best friend but not clean outs...
We are facing unknown (no stats provided) limp caller. He can have all flush combos in the deck and you are saying we're ok with our 72...
Do not agree.

I'm not debating that he limps all combinations of flush draws.

He doesn't raise them on the turn. The type of villain who limp-calls pre and the type of villain who plays draws aggressively are almost always mutually exclusive.

The only flush draws I imagine he raises OTT are KJdd etc.

AJdd, KJdd, QJdd, JTdd, J9dd...

Originally posted by nitrol
AJdd, KJdd, QJdd, JTdd, J9dd...

Yes, I'm sure we could all have inferred that from "etc". I doubt he raises <JT because fish love their top pair/good kicker combos.

Why not any JXdd? If he raises KJdd I think he can raise QJdd,TJdd as well. Would he do it with combo draws, 8Xdd or 5Xdd with other diamond higher than 7d? I can easily see him doing that. And if he is raising sets here we have to recude 2 of our outs.

Originally posted by la55i
Why not any JXdd? If he raises KJdd I think he can raise QJdd,TJdd as well.

Fish mindset of "I has top pair good kicker raise raise raise". You often see them raising AQ/KQ/QJ on Qxx but calling QT/Q9 etc. It's all completely speculative and he might well raise J2dd; I'm just arguing that nitrol's claim that "he can have all flush combos" is totally wrong given the action.

Originally posted by la55i
Would he do it with combo draws, 8Xdd or 5Xdd with other diamond higher than 7d? I can easily see him doing that.

There's no way he's limp-calling pre and raising combo draws. We'd all raise our combo draws because we know aggression/semibluffs are good but fish just want to see the next card and make their draw.

MJ, you know I love you. But without any observations or stats I cannot say he will be passive postflop.

I have to agree here that even if villain plays passively pre, it doesn't mean he will be passive post flop. He can play passively when he doesn't hit and aggressively when he hits. Maybe he thinks that pair+draw or "monster" draw is so good he must raise.