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HU river decision.

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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players

BB: $9.48 (94.8 bb)
Hero (SB): $10.35 (103.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A J
Hero raises to $0.20, BB raises to $0.40, Hero calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.80) 2 A T (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.60) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($3.20) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $5.10, Hero calls $5.10

Results:

Spoiler

$13.40 pot ($1 rake)
Final Board: 2 A T 8 5
BB showed T 9 and lost (-$6.70 net)
Hero mucked A J and won $12.40 ($5.70 net)

Unknown villain, played 10 hands with him beforer this hand . Villains first time 3betting.

I am not 4 betting here because it was his first 3 bet so I give him respect (even tough it was min 3 bet.)

So flop and turn are pretty easy to call, but then he overbets the river.

My line of thought:

If he has AK/AQ/AJ/AT, he would probably bet smaller(normal 3/4 pot) to get value from worse hands. If he had flush, he could over bet or just bet normal 3/4 pot.

MY line looks a lot like an Ax/Tx/flush draw. So then i was thinking that he will over bet all the other hands in his range like KK QQ JJ TK (sometimes the flush) etc, to make me fold my Ax hands. So i called and I was correct with my thinking.

What do you think of this? I am not sure if this is what the villain was thinking because I don't know if he is a good or bad player or just randomly bluffing because the flush hit on the river.

I am not sure if I can post heads up hands on this forum?


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21 replies
MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Alright, so first things first he's not playing a full stack which makes me inclined to label him as a fish.

I doubt he's turning KK/QQ/JJ into a bluff; it would be pretty sexy for him to do this with KdKx or something though. You just have to be right so often for this call to be profitable. I'm folding.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Hmm. Okay. Mabye I am not playing ABC enough. IF I was the villain in this hand I would overbet those hands otr becouse my line was so passive on a wet board. -> passive line on this board is usually top/mid pair or passively played draw.

So overbetting the river as villain is More+EV becouse we win those hands that normally beat us if we get to showdown because villain will fold them.

But yeah he didnot have 100bb stack so Im levelling too much mabye becouse he is likely a bad player. And this is only nl10....


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

AK, AQ beat you , glush completes. ... you should fold.
As you made the hero call - make a note!


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Dabobs
Joined: 10.06.2010

It's definitely fold. I usually make over bet if I want to get more money from weak players. At this limit, players usually don't bluff. It looks like more that he got flush, than bluff.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

I think guys here are missing this is heads up.
For me its a call. Tpgk is a strong hand in this game and hu fishes are way more inclined to bluff when compared to 6max or full ring tables. Its a different game.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

What hands do you beat there vs unknown villain ( without looking at the result)?
If villain is 3 betting for value ATs+,AJo+ you split with the AJ only. If he has low suited Ax 2 of them beat you too.
And as a worsening factor the flush got there. Why are you going to call 3 streets with a river overbet?
Without any specific info on villain, this is fold.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Yeah maybe we have to fold here against unknown. But it is true what Afulibador said that in HU fishes are usually too aggressive compared to 6max where they are too passive. Also HU 3 bet ranges can be a lot wider than in 6 max.

Thank you for your answers!


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

It is true that HU fish are usually too aggressive and I'm not very surprised to see that villain had such a hand here. But still villain is unknown and he bets huge OTR. And as nitrol said we do not beat much. We take a huge risk when we herocall this. I would fold.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by Afulibador
I think guys here are missing this is heads up./

I did. In that case my only advice is to stop playing HU micro tables and find a game where the rake is beatable.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

MJ, I must respectfully disagree.
The fishes in HU pay way more than rake... The thing is u dont improve ur game at all by bum hunting.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

There may be "fish" in HU games, but "fish" is much more on 6 max...
MJ's advice is good. Better master the BSS 6 max, and then when you feel comfortable - you can move to HU.
Forme this is a nice movement.


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jmackenzie
Joined: 04.06.2008

Easy call.

The simple fact is you need to be right 37% of the time.

I think it is closer to 50+% in a vacuum. When you know the player is a fish.

This isn't the sort of hand to try and deconstruct ranges. Often times its just random button clicks and the pure fact that you have a hand of good relative hand strength means I am not folding in this spot without further reads.

I am calling any Ax here for that reason


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It's great that you were right and won the hand, but I probably would have folded. I personally hate AJ, and there's a lot of hands that beat you.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by jmackenzie
Easy call.

The simple fact is you need to be right 37% of the time.

I think it is closer to 50+% in a vacuum. When you know the player is a fish.

This isn't the sort of hand to try and deconstruct ranges. Often times its just random button clicks and the pure fact that you have a hand of good relative hand strength means I am not folding in this spot without further reads.

I am calling any Ax here for that reason

All Ax I think its a bit too much. But AJ is definitely in.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by jmackenzie
I am calling any Ax here for that reason

Calling that wide will lose you money vs unknown. Till you collect some info and reads-you should tighten up.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

The problem as I see it is the inverted logic in OP. Reading normal sized bets for value and overbets for bluffs is a recipe for disaster whether villain figures out what you are doing. If he does figure out, it is a cataclysm. You should require very solid reads (notes including showdowns, not stats or population reads) to ever go with such logic.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

There s no inverted logic in OP.
Many HU fishes like to do these plays w poor holdings.
Again, AJ is strong.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by Afulibador
There s no inverted logic in OP.
Many HU fishes like to do these plays w poor holdings.
Again, AJ is strong.

Big bet = small hand, small bet = big hand is exactly inverted logic. It may work at NLsmall, but it is still inverted logic. It is very dangerous reasoning against good players. Poker is mostly about value. Deception does not play the main role.

To make this blatantly clear: What is the correct sizing for a bluff? Should we make it look like a value bet? Like a bluff?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I try to make bets equal size...


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