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Settle an argument for us!

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Hey guys!

Me and a few friends play live poker once per week. We're all newbies, usually play low stackes MTT and cash games.

During our live session yesterday, we've faced the following situation.

Blind was 200, and i had 500 chips. There was a guy behind me with 200 chips.
Chip leader was massive, with 2900 chips.

The price was:
1st - 30 USD
2nd- 20 USD
3rd - 5 USD

So one of the last hands i was dealt Q3o or something like that. The short stack was the BU, chiplead was SB and i was BB.

BU folds.
SB shoves all in
Hero action?

I folded my hand, putting the pressure on the short stack. He managed to double up, and i unfortunately lost my next hand as BB. The chip leader told us after that he has T4o

One of our friends insisted that the correct play was to call the hand instead of folding. Another friend said that calling even with AQo would be a unnecessary risk and might require some though. Which one was right? What would be your range to call in that position, considering that the chip leader would push with any 2 cards?

Please take into consideration the price money. 3rd place only wins 5 USD while second wins 20.

Thanks!


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3 replies
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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

First of all I have moved your hand to the hand discussion board, because its fits better there.
I expect this was a hand on the bubble. Then it’s indeed not too weird to fold Q3o here. Even if the SB shoves any 2, but this is a pretty weird paid-out structure with only $5 for 3rd place and 4 times more for 2nd. So than is AQo for example a clear call, because it’s way more interested to finished 2nd than 3rd in this particle tournament, but if you want a good calling hand range I need to know how big the 2nd in the chip counts and if there is antes in game as well.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

So much of pricepool is placed on first two positions that you need to be really tight in this spot and folding AQo versus any2 range is going to be +EV. I also checked this with HRC with assumption that blinds are 100/200 and stacks are BU 200, SB 2900 and BB 500.

With 30/20/5 structure: http://hands.holdemresources.net/?id=16jcg9p281yx5
With 50/30/20 structure (normal 9man sng): http://hands.holdemresources.net/?id=rybwkak97ib0

So clear difference and obvious reason is that when pricepool is more weighted toward top then ICM tax decreases for you. Other way to represent difference in these price pools is to split remaining moneys further.

In 30/20/5 everyone has won 5 with three left. There is 40 left where 25 goes to winner and 15 to second place --> Winner gets 62.5% and second 37.5%
In 50/30/20 everyone has won 20. There is 40 left where 30 goes to winner and 10 to second place --> Winner gets 75% and second 25%

So you see that in first structure we definitely want to minimize our chances of ending third and in second one most of remaining price pool is for first place so we want to take more risk in this hand.

PS: All HRC calculations are done with FGS1 to account next hand where BU is forced allin. In next hand you should also call with almost any2 to team play versus current BU even when chip leader shoves.


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slippyjim
Joined: 07.10.2011

Personally I'd call with 2.5BB and 1BB already in the pot. It may not be the absolutely best mathematical play, but at least if you double up you get to 5BB and a semi decent stack size whereas if you fold then double up you go to 3BB.
Personally I'd gamble a bit here


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