3Bet Pots OOP - T8s at 87Ar

I'd probably call preflop because I'm really cocky about my multiway pot skill
But fold is just fine, squeeze seems like the worst option of them all, they can call you with ATs, broadways your straights can be dominated and you don't block all that many continuing hands so I really wouldn't pick this hand.

On the flop I'd check call or go for a small bet and take it from there

Lemon, what would be your squeezing range here? Sounds like you would go with more linear one but then we could face some domination issues also and considering we are OOP vs both I think these low suited hands could play better postflop?

Agree with checking OTF or going with a small bet.

I'd call or fold this too preflop. I would only sqz this when i have solid reads the guy overfolds vs squeezes, but then again i would prefer other handtypes to do so.

As played i would cbet this board, checking and giving him a free card with his probable 2 overcards is mehh.

Originally posted by la55i
Lemon, what would be your squeezing range here? Sounds like you would go with more linear one but then we could face some domination issues also and considering we are OOP vs both I think these low suited hands could play better postflop?

Agree with checking OTF or going with a small bet.

well yeah but if you pick a suited hand you want one that can bink disguised straights and 2pairs and hit boards their ranges should miss and just go check down and win with a low pair, or bet small check check and win at sd

like 45s 67s will be a much better squeeze than T8s becauseof what happens postflop
We're also deep with the PFR you might even work some of those in as default even without reads, just not T8s

Hands like AJs sure they call AK AQ vs you, and you're dominated if you hit, but having double blocker just makes it work a lot more often, you block their 4bets and have just more raw equity vs ranges with a ton of broadway stuff and pocket pairs

Lemon, T8s is a squeeze hand in w34z3l's ranges. It is not that good for a calland thus is perfect for a squeeze.
I do not see how 45sis better than T8s, sorry.
On flop with TP we should make a cbet. We can makea small one but we should cbet.

We have had these range talks with LemOn before
I can understand why calling would be fine, but I wouldn't say T8s doesn't work as a squeeze (by standard, if we forget that we are a bit deep for now).
What you said about hitting disguised straights and winning with small pairs and so on, I think fits T8s ok. And I don't really see that big of a difference between T8s and 67s. Only that T8s might block some of his possible 4bet bluffs a little bit better.

So in the end, does it make a difference? When we compare T8s and 45s, is one or the other significantly better hand to put in a squeezing range?

Originally posted by nitrol
Lemon, T8s is a squeeze hand in w34z3l's ranges. It is not that good for a calland thus is perfect for a squeeze.
I do not see how 45sis better than T8s, sorry.
On flop with TP we should make a cbet. We can makea small one but we should cbet.

I mean it makes perfect sense right, 45s-67s is an easy call
so T8s will be the top of our folding range so we work it in as a bluff squeeze right.
Nice, simple, easy to control a fairly efficient preflop range.

Well that's not how I set up my ranges anymore.
I might bring up why in one of my coachings if you ask there in live chat
It'll be more effective with live immediate responses when I can show you examples than here

I guess we won't have this hand though, so I can bring it up specifically
but take a look here
most people say cbet, and if you choose a size of half pot+ are you really happy check calling on a blank turn (which I assume is your plan)
I'd be much happier to do it on e.g. 523 board with 65 than on this one.

On a board like this having a mix of overpairs, strong overcards+backdoor and then hands like 56, 45cc, dd, ss that can win you a huge pot and you can barrel easily I'd like much more when ranges are so tight (he called a squeeze from BB in MP 140bb deep) and our T top pair no kicker can take what, one, not even sure if two streets of 50%+ sized action?

It's basically letting go of the simple approach of bluffing with top of folding range preflop, and using preflop more as just a beginning of your game tree, which does take away simplicity.
Why I told you what I'd do personally.
And why W34z3l's ranges are great when you want a nice simple preflop strategy and you should definitely follow them until you start working on you own on case by case basis

Originally posted by LemOn36
most people say cbet, and if you choose a size of half pot+ are you really happy check calling on a blank turn (which I assume is your plan)
I'd be much happier to do it on e.g. 523 board with 65 than on this one.

Why I told you what I'd do personally.
And why W34z3l's ranges are great when you want a nice simple preflop strategy and you should definitely follow them until you start working on you own on case by case basis

Great! Makes alot of sense.
I was following W34z3l's range lol
And agree that they are great and helping me alot, but your analysis makes alot of sense if we look for the kind of hand + board we would be willing to continue calling more streets.
I would probably be folding alot more with a T8 small connected in a board than i would with a 65 small connected in a board....

Thank you everybody.
Great discussion.

I used to be in the spanish community, but i'm kinda moving here. lol.

Lemon, how the coaches works?
Are they exclusively for pokerstrategy?
Are they free for members (silver, gold, ...)?
Can we talk about a private coach plan?
I really want to do one in the next months and studying all the possibilities.

Thank u once again guys.

Here you can find our coaching schedule.
It looks like LemOn's coaching series Crushing in 2018 just ended but I'm sure he is already planning a new series, right lemon?

Coachings will be streamed on our twitch channel. Participating is free. All of the coachings will be recorded and then a couple of weeks after they are published here. The recordings of LemOn's coachings are usually for Silver members.

I have understood that LemOn doesn't offer private coachings but if you are interested in those, you can check out some other coaches that do.

Originally posted by la55i
Here you can find our coaching schedule.
It looks like LemOn's coaching series Crushing in 2018 just ended but I'm sure he is already planning a new series, right lemon?

Coachings will be streamed on our twitch channel. Participating is free. All of the coachings will be recorded and then a couple of weeks after they are published here. The recordings of LemOn's coachings are usually for Silver members.

I have understood that LemOn doesn't offer private coachings but if you are interested in those, you can check out some other coaches that do.

Oh GREAT!
I see that you also have a private coaching program.
I'll take a look.
Thank you la55i.

You guys actually gave me an idea for a fun new series D

Originally posted by vinibarbosa

Originally posted by LemOn36
most people say cbet, and if you choose a size of half pot+ are you really happy check calling on a blank turn (which I assume is your plan)
I'd be much happier to do it on e.g. 523 board with 65 than on this one.

Why I told you what I'd do personally.
And why W34z3l's ranges are great when you want a nice simple preflop strategy and you should definitely follow them until you start working on you own on case by case basis

Great! Makes alot of sense.
I was following W34z3l's range lol
And agree that they are great and helping me alot, but your analysis makes alot of sense if we look for the kind of hand + board we would be willing to continue calling more streets.
I would probably be folding alot more with a T8 small connected in a board than i would with a 65 small connected in a board....

Thank you everybody.
Great discussion.

I used to be in the spanish community, but i'm kinda moving here. lol.

Lemon, how the coaches works?
Are they exclusively for pokerstrategy?
Are they free for members (silver, gold, ...)?
Can we talk about a private coach plan?
I really want to do one in the next months and studying all the possibilities.

Thank u once again guys.
Well honestly, I'm a student of the game still, have hefty goals and got access to some top notch coaching myself, so it's not really worth if for me to coach privately. I was thinking today and if it were about money I probably even shouldn't do the live coachings I do.
But it's really great for my motivation to interact with the great chat, and let's face it, my attention-whoring ego needs those to enjoy my job overall

There's some great coaches here, la55i is one that keeps putting in a lot of effort right now and that's definitely something you want to look for.

As to live coachings my tip's to just click follow https://www.twitch.tv/pokerstrategydotcom get notifications when it's on and all coachings can be seen free, with live chat response while they are streamed, they are behind statuses only when posted as vids. I tune in for a while into W34z3l's and Kyyberi's coachings all the time (even tho I have no idea what the hell is happening in the latter one )

Oh and thank you very much guys
I was stuck in what coaching series to do, but you gave me a great idea, that you will see next week if it gets a green light

Great I'm looking forward for your coachings. Will there be another series of Pokerstrategy's got talent later this year?