PreFlop Pocket Aces Scared of Big Stacks

The deeper the effective stack is, the bigger bankroll you need to afford to play at the table, so unless there was a confirmed terribly weak whale at that table* (I mean, even weaker than the majority of the Iggy NL10 population), you were correct to leave.

* I doubt there was - it's hard to judge UTG or BTN by the 5 hands seen so far, unless they showed down some really surprising holdings in at least 1 of those 5. Overall, the distribution of stacks wasn't your in favor at that table - too many stacks were even significantly shorter than 100 bb.

Originally posted by srichards
I am having a great ride at this table. I started with the maximum 100 BB and now sit at 340 BB. My luck continues with pocket aces which I limp. Fortunately, one player raised to 7 BB and there are two callers. I wanted a raise after my limp. The callers after raise are also welcomed. Normally, I would have 3x, three betted to 21 BB. But I am scared. Two of the callers are at 220 and 290 BB. Each of them with one hand can eliminate the winnings that I have enjoyed at this table. So instead of the normal raise to 21 BB, my thoughts were that if you want all of this money, you must have the courage to take it now. So I raised All-In. I immediately left this table and concentrated on my other three tables. I saw no need to battle large stacks who could take my large stack. Your thoughts?

Ignition - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 76.7 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 100.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (MP): 339.6 BB
MP+1: 69.2 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: 133.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BTN: 227.6 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
SB: 114 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 28 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG: 290.3 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ A♠

UTG calls 1 BB, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, CO calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 7 BB, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB, UTG+1 calls 6 BB, Hero raises to 339.6 BB and is all-in, fold, fold, fold, fold

Hero wins 30.5 BB

Just close all tabels and learn the basics of Poker start at the very beginning and go back to NL2 and grind it up from there. If you are a recrational player that just want to have some fun then just continue. You have play this hand just total terrible.

Just raise this hand pre-flop like 5 or 6bb, but not limping this hand. You don't want to play AA multi way post-flop, because the change you end up with the 2nd best hand post-flop will be huge. Even with AA.

As played I would 3bet to like 30-35bb after the big raise of the BTN and 2 callers and stack off if you face a 4bet

Cheers,
SDK1987

If you can't afford to play a certain stake level just don't play it. As simple as that. Use proper BRM or you'll fail.
Cpt has said it. Limping is bad and the shove is awful. Just do the standard open raise (3-4x) and 4bet when someone 3bets. Keep it simple.

Originally posted by tonypmm
The deeper the effective stack is, the bigger bankroll you need to afford to play at the table, so unless there was a confirmed terribly weak whale at that table* (I mean, even weaker than the majority of the Iggy NL10 population), you were correct to leave.

* I doubt there was - it's hard to judge UTG or BTN by the 5 hands seen so far, unless they showed down some really surprising holdings in at least 1 of those 5. Overall, the distribution of stacks wasn't your in favor at that table - too many stacks were even significantly shorter than 100 bb.

Thanks so much for this advice. I suspected that it was unwise to play against deep effective stacks. I needed affirmation from a strong player like you.

Originally posted by CptJokerFish
Just close all tabels and learn the basics of Poker start at the very beginning and go back to NL2 and grind it up from there. If you are a recrational player that just want to have some fun then just continue. You have play this hand just total terrible.

LOL! Boy, there is great repulsion towards an Always Limp/Call strategy. I have been playing online poker for 10 years. I have been winning for the last two years. I use to employ the conventional preflop strategy. Recently, I started experimenting with an Always Limp/Call strategy. My current bb/100 win rate has significantly improved while limping. However, limping Aces is an acceptable conventional preflop tactic to create a 3 bet opportunity. Limping Aces is not terrible. My biggest mistake was playing at a table with such deep stacks. I am very pleased that tonypmm agreed with my decision to leave the table.

Is this hand real? UTG and UTG+1 limps and you overlimp with aces giving away your equity? This hand is just crazy.
BTW you should start at NL2 and learn the very basics.

Originally posted by SDK1987
Just raise this hand pre-flop like 5 or 6bb, but not limping this hand. You don't want to play AA multi way post-flop, because the change you end up with the 2nd best hand post-flop will be huge. Even with AA.

As played I would 3bet to like 30-35bb after the big raise of the BTN and 2 callers and stack off if you face a 4bet

Cheers,
SDK1987

Yes, I agree. AA with several opponents is susceptible. One can limp Aces to create a 3 bet. Or one can raise Aces. I have read that both tactics are within normally acceptable preflop tactics. So I agree with your suggestions. I just wish to discuss the sizes of your raises. If this was one of the times that I decided raise Aces, I would probably raise it to 4 bb. I would 3x or maybe 4x three bet to 21 bb or 28 bb. Your suggested raise to 6 bb, and the 3 bet to 35 bb concerns me. I am reluctant to raise as much as you suggested because I do not want to scare away wanted action. Of course, I agree that you have to shove a 4 bet. My play to raise 340 bb All In was because I previously did not notice the deep stacks and wanted to scare my opponents away or lure one opponent to such a high All In shove. But back to my question for you. By your experience, are you scaring many opponents away with 6 bb raises and 5 x three bets?

Originally posted by gordonebula
Is this hand real? UTG and UTG+1 limps and you overlimp with aces giving away your equity? This hand is just crazy.
BTW you should start at NL2 and learn the very basics.

I have been playing online for 10 years and winning for the last two years. I bet my bb/100 is better than yours. Perhaps, I have developed a winning style which is beyond the basics that you understand. There were five players who followed me. You cannot see that I was luring one of those players to raise so I can 3 bet. At normal effective stakes, I would have 3x, 3 betted. My mistake was that I did not notice the high effective stack sizes before staying at this table as explained by tonypmm. The best solution to my mistake was to 340 bb All-In shove to scare away opponents or contend with one brave caller. Read tonypmm’s comment. He truly understands my fundamental mistake which I without shame shared with Poker Strategy. Self-criticism is a wonderful tool for improvement. I suspected my mistake and a fine winning player acknowledged it.

Originally posted by srichards
I am having a great ride at this table. I started with the maximum 100 BB and now sit at 340 BB. My luck continues with pocket aces which I limp. Fortunately, one player raised to 7 BB and there are two callers. I wanted a raise after my limp. The callers after raise are also welcomed. Normally, I would have 3x, three betted to 21 BB. But I am scared. Two of the callers are at 220 and 290 BB. Each of them with one hand can eliminate the winnings that I have enjoyed at this table. So instead of the normal raise to 21 BB, my thoughts were that if you want all of this money, you must have the courage to take it now. So I raised All-In. I immediately left this table and concentrated on my other three tables. I saw no need to battle large stacks who could take my large stack. Your thoughts?

Sorry, but I didn't get either your reasoning about the hand or your comments on your stack size compared to the other players.

About the hand: I'm not aware of your stats, but when I see nitish or weak tight players (based on their stats), limping/3 beting, most of the time they show KK+ on SD. Sometimes AK.
So, as far as I'm concerned, your range is pretty face up, if your stats fit on one of those type of players, and you limp/3bet. You would probably better simplying raising right away.

About your stack: I will not pretend I know how to play stacks bigger than 200 BB, but if the players on your table are tight, couldn't you simple play a bunch of pots in position, preferibly HU, and try to use your stack size to bluff them off of their weakest holdings, such as tpin drawy boards, middle pairs and such?
And, if your opponets are sticky, try to play a lot of speaculative hands to waiting for stack off against them, when the time is rigth?

And if the other big staker are fishy/weaker isn't that a good reason to continue playing on that table?

If you don't know how to play with big stack, don't play with big stack. It's another game very different than the game with 100BB.
Big staks can make a big profit if you have the bankroll (you need a lot more than normal) and you know how to take the advantage. Aggression and pressure is needed, because it's not easy to stack of with much less than the nuts. The scared game is what should't be played. And if you are scared with aces I have not idea what hand you do need to feel confident quads with a joker maybe.

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
And if you are scared with aces I have not idea what hand you do need to feel confident quads with a joker maybe.

This one made my day

Originally posted by zetozinho

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
And if you are scared with aces I have not idea what hand you do need to feel confident quads with a joker maybe.

This one made my day
L0l

"my thoughts were that if you want all of this money, you must have the courage to take it now."

And do you, fine sir, have the COURAGE, the BRAVERY to call my all in? (cough, 220bb deep while I have aces, cough)
What is this nonesense. You have bullets. Shouldn't even be posting this hand lol.

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
If you don't know how to play with big stack, don't play with big stack. It's another game very different than the game with 100BB.

That is exactly my point. I don't want to play with big stacks and made a mistake in not noticing the high effective stacks. I admitted my mistake in continuing at this table as a means to educate others. I am sorry that DecMate does not seem to understand the Mea Culpa theme of my post. As Semi stated, big stack is an entirely different game. My post was to demonstrate a mistake that others should avoid. DecMate - Self-criticism and open admission to a mistake is a way for all to learn. So unlike your opinion, this hand SHOULD be posted.

Hello,
All these posts about you learning strategy at NL2 are inproper, you can learn strategy at any limit you like.
What I would suggest you to do is to work on your mindset, I see that you are affraid to loose your current winnings and this stops you from playing profitable spots.

No don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the story telling of you're hand. Epic. Story. Telling.
Just a humble opinion that if you have aces pre,.. the actions pretty clear. (Action is raise btw) 😉

They're telling you to go back to Nl2 because even an NL2 player knows not to play aces like this.

Originally posted by venatici
Hello,
All these posts about you learning strategy at NL2 are inproper, you can learn strategy at any limit you like.
What I would suggest you to do is to work on your mindset, I see that you are affraid to loose your current winnings and this stops you from playing profitable spots.

I agree that it would produce lousy play if I was afraid of losing a big hand in general. My site allows a 100 BB maximum buy in. Thus, I am very comfortable in losing 100 BB to 150 BB in one hand. It is very unlikely that the effective stacks are such that one could lose more. However, this was quite unusual to face a possible 290 BB effective stacks. So, I amusingly got scared with pocket Aces. Now, that is silly. Getting scared with that hand. Moral of the story. Be aware of the effective stacks. Oops! I missed that one.

Originally posted by DecMate
No don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the story telling of you're hand. Epic. Story. Telling.
Just a humble opinion that if you have aces pre,.. the actions pretty clear. (Action is raise btw) 😉

They're telling you to go back to Nl2 because even an NL2 player knows not to play aces like this.

Thanks DecMate. Glad that you enjoyed the story of my mistake of not noticing the effective stacks. I use to raise Aces. In a few days, I will post my Poker Tracker results of limping Aces vs raising Aces.

Originally posted by srichards
I use to raise Aces. In a few days, I will post my Poker Tracker results of limping Aces vs raising Aces.

Do you have a huge sample size, from all positions, using the 2 strategies, so the comparison would be meaningful?