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PLO10 T986s 3bet from BU

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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

We have not yet studied 3betting in omaha study group but this sort of hand felt nice one to go for it. Not much nut potential so it would benefit from HU pot. Only one gap on low end so pretty good rundown I think.

So CO minraised, I went for 3bet, BB 4bet and easy to call. Flop is one of best possible ones but villain check. Went for half pot for value and protection. I think this flop would be nice to stab with some air hands versus check also.


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efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

whats your plan if get called and turn is 8c and
A) BB checks
B) BB pots
???


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

A: Likely check. I would still have straight but no need really for protection. At worst case villain has some JTxx, Q9xx for bigger straight draw. If he has flush or nut straight I am behind anyway. By checking turn villain could still try to bluff river sometimes or we could improve to FH. Now if he checks river again it would probably be best to check back though I would think betting could work close to freeroll as well.

B: If he pots we will have 5.6 to call for pot off 21.7 so need around 25% equity. We have 6 outs to full house so that would not be enough. Though at same time that sort of line would look kind of funky. If he has high flush draw on flop I think there is fairly big chance that it would play flop more aggressive. So likely I would call anyway.

To me betting smaller on turn is still good looking option even if there is some tricky possible scenarios. As long as I want to also bet some airball that cant stack off flop.


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Eselsdorfjung
Joined: 05.07.2014

If this hand was played on PLO5 where I am currently playing my idea would be to pot the flop and get it in.
The reason for this in my opinion is that we want to make it as expensive as possible for flush draws, overpairs like AA/KK or Broadway rundowns which are definetely in villains range.

So in general my approach is that I go big with hands which are pretty vulnerable on further streets.

Just a brain dump or valid thoughts?


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efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

i second potting the flop. reason like jung just explained plus I want to avoid the need of finding answers to the questions I gave earlier :P


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Well I suppose I don't really see this hand to be vulnerable. There is flush draw that we also block somewhat. So 8 club which come 18% of time. Not such huge deal.

Ah sry 7 clubs as we probably don't hate Tc. I agree with maximum protection line with some set, two pairs or some Txxx which I would be happy to stack off with such low SPR.

If we want to stab some of air type low equity hands (e.g. some double paired hands come in mind as first ones) that are behind AAxx I would want to keep some of stronger hands like this in same range. Now maybe we don't want to bluff with those. Then going for pot seems totally fine with whole betting range.

Or maybe we look for max exploitation and only bet small with air. Yeah balance is not crucial as villain is unlikely to exploit us anyway but personally I don't want to do ton of lines that are totally unbalanced. Neither learn to do such lines blindly at least.

One example of total unbalance in holdem would be absurdly huge c-r on board like 8885A where I will simply always have quads and 80+% of opponents are incapable to fold Ax. But that is also ultra rare situation.


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efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

you shouldnt think about balancing lines on plo10 vs a player you dont know. also you shouldnt bluff much in 3bet pots because at spr 1.5 you dont have much FE anyways.


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Yeah I wouldn't try to bluff much but imo this hand represent good spot. That flop is very very awkward to likely AAxx heavy range. Even more so as it's 4bet pot. I never have AAxx here when calling pre and this flop sort of slam into range of hands that definitely want to peel flop versus AAxx.


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

I´m with "Esel": bet the pot on flop and get it in ---> as posted.

Not sure if this is in our 3-betting range (as Ghale said, we didn´t do that yet), but I personally would just guess that for 3-betting we need at least a suited ace which goes with the rundowns?


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

I think one of reasons why this sort of hand could work as 3bet is to get HU pot with lower SPR. So when we have these mid suits they will have more relative value with wider stack off ranges.

If we just call pre and it ends up 4way pot having T high flush draw has very little value unless we also hit like strong straight etc. A doesn't really work as part of rundowns imo. Well unless it's broadway rundown. E.g. if we have Ah9h87 it will weaken possibility of wraps quite a bit. Well not bad hand but I would be more happy to have that 9876 to 3bet.

But yeah these are out of hat feelings :)


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Then I would guess something like 89TJds or 786Tds? But let´s see in our next lesson. :f_thumbsup::f_biggrin:


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Yeah one thing that came already in first one was that gapper on the high end is worst. So e.g. T986 is lot better compared to T876. Flopping more nutty outs with low end gappers.


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

..and double suited! Just learning the ranges. Double suited gappers are good in HU-pots.


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Update, Ghale: Read in a book that you can 3-bet ss-bottom gappers! :f_thumbsup:


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efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

you can, but you shouldnt. focus on 3betting doublesuited connectoed hands instead


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