[Closed] Fr: 0,25 0,5 KK

Hello!

River is an easy value bet, not much to say. It's so likely that he has 6x, 5x, 7x, a pp... Since he doesn't donk river I think you're ahead almost for sure.

Regards,

Primzi

I don't quite get the turn raise. There was an OESD already on the board with villain betting on flop and a possible flush draw with two diamonds. I would just call here, it seems to dangerous to get involved in raising games...

Originally posted by Berkstajger
I don't quite get the turn raise. There was an OESD already on the board with villain betting on flop and a possible flush draw with two diamonds. I would just call here, it seems to dangerous to get involved in raising games...

Hello!

And villain should have a straight on the turn or a backdoor flush draw why :P? He can have 7x, 6x, 5x, 4x easily, as well as 99/TT... If he has a straight on the turn he'll 3-bet you and you'll know where you're at, if you don't raise you will lose value... You can go calculate equity by yourself, but I can assure you that it's the easiest turn raise ever. You shouldn't be so scared and "villain must have a straight if there's an OESD on the flop" ;). It's like if you have KK and A comes on flop, you'll be like "villain has an A for sure, i should just check down/call down" :P? You have to know how to define the villain's handrange and see how much of it you beat... You beat 2/3 of his flop donking range for sure and the range stays pretty much the same on the turn.

Regards,

Primzi

Sure. And I very often bet with KK with A on the board. I don't understand why just call on the flop with much less dangerous board than on turn, since villain was already betting flop and if he was betting on some sort of straight draw on flop, the danger just gets bigger on turn. Any higher card like T/J/Q would be much better for a raise there, imho.

I agree that you can find out the villain's range by reraising, but you can do that much cheaper on flop. If he didn't have anything, he would than just check the turn being already afraid of your raise on flop.

Just my 5 cents.

Hello!

Call flop, raise turn is a standard playing line to extract the most value from an oponnent. No point in killing the action on flop. Read the articles then come back here ;).

Call flop call turn call river = 2.5BB from worse hand, you have no idea where you stand.
Raise flop bet turn bet river = 3BB from worse hand, oponnent might just fold on flop on turn so you gain even less.
Call flop raise turn bet river = 3.5BB from a worse hand, you know where you're at.

Regards,

Primzi

No need to point me to read the articles. The strategy suggests the way to extract the most value when you are playing ahead what you can't say in this particular situation.

Whatever... you see the glass half full, someone might see it half empty and I don't really mind as long as it has cold beer in it.

Hi!

hahahhahahaha, well then enjoy beating micro limits and cheers:)

Hello!

I do not think that any further comment is neccessary, since you don't even bother reading the articles and you do not have a single argument why we shouldn't have enough equity to raise this turn (we are actually only behind 8x from his donking range and perhaps two pair, but we have outs against that, still we are a big favorite on the turn), but ya, I hope you enjoy your paranoya and that you will soon realize that your theories might not be the best (when you fail to beat a limit). I do not think that there is a need for this discussion to go on, the hand is quite simple to play and I've already told the right way to play it :).

Regards,

Primzi

I have no trouble learning new things, afterall it's the main reason why I'm here. I like to hear criticism because that's the only way I'll improve. But it's the rtfm attitude that bothers me a bit.

I'll presume you're just fed up with all the advices you have to give and are a normal cool dude and not some frustrated geek getting his frustrations out in a virtual life. That's why I'm gonna follow your advice and read the rest of the articles in silver section and then come back with a bunch of questions about things probably written in gold section.

Over&out&Gl@tables

Hello!

The most important part of the learning process is the self-study and management. This situation is pretty much an easy example of the bronze article about standard playing styles against one oponnent and since you're silver already i expect you to have read the bronze articles already. The raising equity might be a bit of advanced theory but it's as simple as: for a raise you need 67% equity vs. villain's handrange which means you need to beat 2/3 of the hands. This means that you can simply put his donking handrange in the equilator and see for yourself that we are easily getting enough equity for a raise. But you rather kept saying unargumentated stuff that we are behind (by the way, even if he has a flush draw, that still means we're ahead), which means that you did not exactly put much effort in the actual understanding of the problem but rather kept thinking that the villain must have a straight here since he donked flop. That stubborn behaviour will cause a laugh from the more experienced players (like Bapsy) who know that this is a pretty marginal situation and an easy raise on the turn. Now if you did actually look at the equilator and try to define the handrange and find out results by yourself, you would realise that you are wrong and admit your mistake, but you rather kept saying that we should call down or even raise donkbet on flop against one oponnent (I do not think that this is a suggested line in the bronze or silver articles, of course raising donkbet on flop is a possible line, but you will have to wait until you are gold/platinum to learn how to use it properly). I have also told you why are your suggested lines bad and pointed you to read/reread articles for you to improve your knowledge - I gain nothing from you reading articles, you know, but you do ;). And since you wouldn't listen to what I said anyways this is the only way you might actually realise you were wrong. It is not the rtfm attitude, it is just that you do not seem to believe more experienced players than you are who crushed your limits ages ago, now I can't do anything about it if you don't listen to them but point you to the articles as I do not feel like explaining the stuff from the articles if you can read them by yourself (which I did anyways). Please do not come into the evaluation section to try to prove something, but rather come here to learn and show us the will :).

P.S. I haven't seen you post any hands here either, I can't help you improve your game unless you post some, you know :|.

Regards,

Primzi

Hey, Primzi.

I admit I've maybe been a bit to harsh on words yesterday. I was just speaking from microlimits experience and an advice taken that it's maybe better not to use the silver rank strategy in microlimits because it just may backfire because of all the donks out there. And yes I did even start an poker odds calculator and realised he was in pretty good shape.

You haven't seen any of my hands here because Pacific Poker didn't even have hands history until not long ago when I already switched to SNGs for a while.

Anyway, I'm moving to 0.25/0.50 and you can expect regular amount of hands being posted here.