Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

CO vs BU 3bet pot, triple barrel

8 Posts
4 Users
0 Reactions
462 Views
BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

CO opens A♠:8♠:K♣:8♥:, BU 3bets
Flop 8♣:6♠:2♦:
CO checks, BU bets 33%, CO calls
T♣:, CO checks, BU bets 33%, Call
7♣: x, SPR 0.8 BU shoves, CO?
My notes on BU is that he 3bets lighter then the nit infested GG pop. Also capable of pulling of big bluffs. Not sure about just calling flop it's probably the standard play. OTT is easy call. OTR I think blocking the turned FD that now completed is not as important especially this SPR. I block 89, but he's going to have a lot of Str8, question is would he bet those on flush river?


Reply
Quote
7 replies
Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

I like the flop check. The flop is quite static and we have enough check-calling candidates when RFI so I would rather go for a check-raise. Also the bet is smallish and for this it is benefitial to start pot-building.

Ott I think donk-betting is a visible option with the K♣:. Very unlikely villain would raise anything else than the straight which allows us to bet-fold. Check-calling I think is more align to GTO but considering how people tend to continue I don't like it too much.

River is check-fold. You will have a lot of better made hands here you can bluff-catch. Yes, if villain bluffs a call theoretically any hand with SDV becomes a call at some point, problem is if villain is fishy or merged, you might run into a merged hand getting value-owned. There are so much combos that have you beat.


Reply
Quote
BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

I think the smaller the bet the more raising we should do, so that's also an argument for raising flop. At the moment I thought x-r will generate lots of folds, so it's better to keep his bluffs and merge value bets, and hopefully he barrels turn at which I x/shove. . I also feel like theoretically top set is a calling a lot here.

You mentioned K♣: but don't understand how that's important for donk betting. Is it because we block flush continues? But wouldn't we want him to continue with FDs.
My thoughts are that I would prefer to have some str8 blocker, but with str8 blocker I also can comfortably x-c so I dunno about donk betting.

OTR I agree, I will have many str8 in this spot that I don't need to call with anything weaker. I considered calling with 3-board pairs as It nicely blocks str8, but as you said vs many players I will get value owned.


Reply
Quote
ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Usually flop value leads are theory wise weighted toward stuff like two pair and one pair with solid draws. Preferably on flops which are fairly good for caller and less so for 3bettor. Sets are in general leading way less as they need less protection.

This flop should be pretty high frequency cbet spot for BU with healthy amount of potting. I would x-r this on flop as it plays very bad on board changing runouts and we are also oop which leads into possibility of him taking free river. We do block AA and KK which is not ideal but I would use stronger top set combos for slow playing.


Reply
Quote
Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Fold pre to 3bet? Solver likes to call, but then BU 3bet range is probably tighter than what solver assumes.

As played definitely raise versus small bet oop, as otherwise we end up very often oop on the river with minimal postflop value, and board has changed and we have bluff catcher in our hands.


Reply
Quote
BunBun00
Joined: 13.09.2023

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Fold pre to 3bet? Solver likes to call, but then BU 3bet range is probably tighter than what solver assumes.

According to Mastermind trainer calling is -3.14. So calling is +0.36ev compared to folding, that's pretty significant no? Yes they are tighter so it's probably not +0.36 but I would still imagine it being +ev compared to folding.


Reply
Quote
Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

I know solver likes to call, but if BTN 3bet range is a bit more AA heavy than what solver thinks, I am quite sure this turns to a fold. Also, solver can play perfect post flop. With this hand there are boards where the playability oop is quite horrible, leading to mistakes that solver wouldn't do.


Reply
Quote
Mascherano95
Joined: 09.10.2010

You mentioned K♣: but don't understand how that's important for donk betting. Is it because we block flush continues? But wouldn't we want him to continue with FDs.

Yes, we block his continues (and outs if he is on a flushdraw) and it also gives us a potential future blocker we can bluff. When it comes to flush(-draw) blockers the rank does play a role and King-high is decent (once we opt to go for the bluff but with the set I'd still rather try to realize the SDV).

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Fold pre to 3bet? Solver likes to call, but then BU 3bet range is probably tighter than what solver assumes.

+1

Yeah, I did not mention preflop. It makes sense to deviate from solver and fold this hand preflop due to its structure having both an Ace and a pair.


Reply
Quote