nlhe 6max; A8o vs maniac: completely misplayed?

Originally posted by taavi1337
I know everyone tells to 3bet this pre vs them, + it is super tough to play when we flat and we could easily make bad folds with it postflop? ... but there are many players behind me and I don't wish to face a shove with A8o? Or do I? Maybe it is better to just iso3bet and call shove.

On the River I make this small bet hoping to trick him into bluffraising... but what would you do preflop?

I guess I'm not everyone — even though UTG has raised pre 7 times out of 10, I would fold this preflop. I would 3Bet shove AJ+ (maybe AT+) and any pocket pair.
Great that it worked out!

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by taavi1337
I know everyone tells to 3bet this pre vs them, + it is super tough to play when we flat and we could easily make bad folds with it postflop? ... but there are many players behind me and I don't wish to face a shove with A8o? Or do I? Maybe it is better to just iso3bet and call shove.

On the River I make this small bet hoping to trick him into bluffraising... but what would you do preflop?

I guess I'm not everyone — even though UTG has raised pre 7 times out of 10, I would fold this preflop. I would 3Bet shove AJ+ (maybe AT+) and any pocket pair.
Great that it worked out!

Don't you think we have big enough postflop edge to call, if we hit 8 or A, we will get a lot of chips?

I don't think a 3bet shove pre-flop would be smart so deep. No need to play a variance move with a hand like AJ. Also a sample of 10 hands isn't much. Also if you 3bet bluff you need to fold if you face a 4bet and I would only make a move like that if villain folds a lot against 3bets. Calling isn't great either with A8o with not to much playability The rest of the play seems fine I think.

Most likely a induce bet on the river

Cheers,
SDK1987

Yes there was a hand before where I 3bet him with K9o SB vs his BU open he was 35bb deep or something, we went all-in and he had Tx or something. So I didn't want to waste an opportunity. But yes I guess too many players behind maybe..

Originally posted by SDK1987
I don't think a 3bet shove pre-flop would be smart so deep. No need to play a variance move with a hand like AJ. Also a sample of 10 hands isn't much. Also if you 3bet bluff you need to fold if you face a 4bet and I would only make a move like that if villain folds a lot against 3bets. Calling isn't great either with A8o with not to much playability The rest of the play seems fine I think.

We're not deep at all.
UTG has only 53 BB
A 4x 3Bet is almost 1/4 his stack.
Even so, A8 is too weak, and the implied odds aren't there. So me — I fold here.

Kind of true, but still 2 100bb stacks behind hero and A8o is a pretty bad hand to get money in.

Never folding vs him!!

Okay. I think A8o doesn't play that well even against a really wide range.

Hi taavi1337,
I analyzed the hand with equilab. It is very close against 70% VPiP. ~57% equity against real 70% VPiP. But how sure are we after 10 hands that 70% are really 70%. I think I would fold until I have a bigger sample size.

https://postimg.cc/fVwHTrsh

Originally posted by kingdollar
Hi taavi1337,
I analyzed the hand with equilab. It is very close against 70% VPiP. ~57% equity against real 70% VPiP. But how sure are we after 10 hands that 70% are really 70%. I think I would fold until I have a bigger sample size.

https://postimg.cc/fVwHTrsh/blockquote >

Yes, as I said, the problem with folding is that he recently open/shoved vs 3bet T6o for like 22bb from BU. From this I conclude that it is profitable to jam Ax here actually vs him, as he will jam any Kx or any 2 cards. Maybe my logic isn't correct and he has pulled back in spewing around. That is why I tank-call pre, instead of 3-bet-getting it in. If we call it only costs us 3bb while the edge that can be gained postflop is mostly greater than +3bb in my opinion. But of course if he has pulled back to lower than 30% PFR, we could sometimes be dominated by A9+. But I don't think this is yet the case.

Thanks a lot for the reply!

I think a really interesting and fun hand.

@taavi1337

If we call it only costs us 3bb while the edge that can be gained postflop is mostly greater than +3bb in my opinion.

But you also risk multiway postflop or squeeze (less likely on Nl2). Wether to 3bet or flat call depends on the players of your left side. If they are huge calling stations with big VPIP then flat call is better than 3bet because they could easly cold call you. Otherwise it's better to 3bet in position and isolate yourself against this player.

As for the hand seems fine to me. A small bet on the river isnt that bad to induce a bluff. But for me is just call after the raise without info. His line and betsizes indicate that he hasnt much. I think if he had something he would've barrel the river as well.

Originally posted by NapoleonBonaparte135
@taavi1337

If we call it only costs us 3bb while the edge that can be gained postflop is mostly greater than +3bb in my opinion.

But you also risk multiway postflop or squeeze (less likely on Nl2). Wether to 3bet or flat call depends on the players of your left side. If they are huge calling stations with big VPIP then flat call is better than 3bet because they could easly cold call you. Otherwise it's better to 3bet in position and isolate yourself against this player.

As for the hand seems fine to me. A small bet on the river isnt that bad to induce a bluff. But for me is just call after the raise without info. His line and betsizes indicate that he hasnt much. I think if he had something he would've barrel the river as well.

Hes the type of player who could have AT on the river easily and balances it with air bluffs ♦ hard to know. Thanks great comments!