[Closed] Nl400 Fr: Qq

I'd make a small bet on the turn.

If he has something and wants to call - give him a chance.

There are still some scarecards for you AND him, every T, J, K, A will give you trouble because you don't feel comfortable getting money in anymore and at the same time he's not paying you off as much.

You could bet like $130 at the turn to set up a good stacksize for a rivershove.
And i'd not do it fast, fast bets look strong (at least to me :P).

The problem as played is that you have too much money behind.
Since there are 9 combinations of AK but only 6 of AA and KK together it is profitable to bet the turn if you can get all in - he'll still sometimes call hands like A7, it's not like you lose all your value.
Quite the contrary, sometimes he will talk himself into calling the small turnbet AND make a herocall on the river because the small bet confused him.

Originally posted by Bierbaer
I'd make a small bet on the turn.

If he has something and wants to call - give him a chance.

There are still some scarecards for you AND him, every T, J, K, A will give you trouble because you don't feel comfortable getting money in anymore and at the same time he's not paying you off as much.

You could bet like $130 at the turn to set up a good stacksize for a rivershove.
And i'd not do it fast, fast bets look strong (at least to me :P).

The problem as played is that you have too much money behind.
Since there are 9 combinations of AK but only 6 of AA and KK together it is profitable to bet the turn if you can get all in - he'll still sometimes call hands like A7, it's not like you lose all your value.
Quite the contrary, sometimes he will talk himself into calling the small turnbet AND make a herocall on the river because the small bet confused him.

abs true, not betting turn is a weak play at least for 3 reasons: value lost; protection; balancing. If he is at least lev 2 thinker and with some history u can shove the river still, coz he should know we know he doesnt have a hand, so he might attempt to herocall, but this is deffo not the best play unless a lot of levelling going on..

I disagree with you, opponent is a good, regular player, and I don't think if he could call me on turn with any weaker hand - he knows me, what means that he knows that I wouldn't try to bluff twice to all-in on such board. I don't think also if he would call me even with AK - I think that my range was pretty readable in such case - KJ+, QQ+, what beats him - he knew that if he will call turn he won't be able to fold on the river - odds would be too good to fold top2, so I think that he would choose fold on turn without higher set to not go all-in against range much stronger than his hand.

Originally posted by TheNaturat
I disagree with you, opponent is a good, regular player, and I don't think if he could call me on turn with any weaker hand - he knows me, what means that he knows that I wouldn't try to bluff twice to all-in on such board. I don't think also if he would call me even with AK - I think that my range was pretty readable in such case - KJ+, QQ+, what beats him - he knew that if he will call turn he won't be able to fold on the river - odds would be too good to fold top2, so I think that he would choose fold on turn without higher set to not go all-in against range much stronger than his hand.

frankly, u re very overtight if u have the image that ppl continue in this spot only with KK & AA vs u, and u re also overtight if u just think that. Of the two i think the latter is more probable as i am sure ppl always find reasons to level themselves into sth wrong even with your image: fe: he knows u re tight so u would close to never float on flop, but in the same time he thinks u must abuse your image at least sometimes esp given some history between u, so by betting small on turn u might be inducing many more things than u think u would. He might put u on some TT,JJ, JQ of worse and be prepared to c/r turn. After c behind turn as u did, with weak A its harder for him normally without levelling to call anything on river coz his hand is face up and he knows u prolly can handread and are valuetowning him.

Generally u should widen your calling ranges esp ip in 3bet pots and also your floating ranges there. In this very spot i think u should be definitely continuing and betting small on turn with hands like TT,JJ, JQ,QA,JT and from time to time deffo with just any pp, coz he has Ax hands due to his reasonable 3bet stat rather often but K not so often, however we rep these high cards very credibly. U dont even have to bet 100$ on turn to have incredible fe in such scenarious.

If u only continue 3bet pots with pps even ip, moreover just play hit or fold postflop this is a big leak i would say overall, and esp costly on NL400+.

If u feel u have the image of a nit then just bet small on river in this spot, but it doesnt make any sense, he s always behind if he just calls out of curiosity basically and never ever ever more..

Btw: in his spot, its a pretty nice idea to be b, c, c/r with monsters like KK,AA, JT coz he knows if u re a nit postflop in 3bet spots he wont ever get anything out of u until u hit a set, which u bet exactly 1 time due to your passivity.

Overall, your image and the play is very unprofitable on higher lims

I woiuld call him on preflop with many more hands, but not on the flop - he is over agressive player, and he is capable to make 2nd barrel on turn even with total air - I don't like floating against such guys in big pots when I can't put them on hand...

Originally posted by TheNaturat
I woiuld call him on preflop with many more hands, but not on the flop - he is over agressive player, and he is capable to make 2nd barrel on turn even with total air - I don't like floating against such guys in big pots when I can't put them on hand...

the more agro he is oop the lighter u should be calling, i think this is str8 forward logic and implication is: u should be stacking off even with underpairs vs these guys sometimes, coz in long run u wont be getting any value if your call on flop mean set or overpair.. ; ofc sometime they stack u, but u cannot play bulletproof vs lags/maniac.. its certainly not the most profitable over time /and i know what i am talking abt i love playing maniacs esp oop believe me ♦ stacking off with 3rd-4th pair to their air barelled every street and then just go tilted is da nutz! ♦

Originally posted by TheLastNail

the more agro he is oop the lighter u should be calling, i think this is str8 forward logic and implication is: u should be stacking off even with underpairs vs these guys sometimes, coz in long run u wont be getting any value if your call on flop mean set or overpair.. ; ofc sometime they stack u, but u cannot play bulletproof vs lags/maniac.. its certainly not the most profitable over time /and i know what i am talking abt i love playing maniacs esp oop believe me ♦ stacking off with 3rd-4th pair to their air barelled every street and then just go tilted is da nutz! ♦

I agree that you should call them lighter, but i'd not call down underpairs. If they are somewhat competent LAGs, they will barrel Ax for thin value, so their range includes sets, straights, 2pairs AND Ax type of hands.
Imo there are enough valuecombinations in this range that the bluffcombos don't make up for it, so a calldown with a hand like JJ on this board is -EV IMO.
Note that once it gets to the river the rivercall could even be +EV in a vacuum, but i don't like to make a -EV call at the turn to maybe have a +EV call at the river.