[Closed] NL200 FR QQ IP 3-bet pre?

I wouldn't rely on 4bet stats after only 89 hands. but I agree, you don't want to 3bet QQ if you are not willing to go broke preflop.

I don't play full ring so I don't really know the dynamic. In SH, your move could well be a sQz and so villain's 4bet could be a wider range than just AA, KK so I am not folding any more.

yep, I agree SH it is no mistake to 3bet/shove.

On NL200 FR however, it is even leak to 3-bet/push KK against tight opener as he does not 4bet anything else than AA,KK given the positions (he opened from UTG and was 3-betted anyway).

I think you shouldn't be looking at the 4bet-% only when you try to decide whether to squeeze or not.
Of course if he 4bets 4%+ you can easily squeeze/shove, but a 4bet-range of 1% is no argument for calling.
The important stat in this case is the fold-to-3bet-%.
It's actually very nice for you if he 4bets 1% because you can comfortably fold against KK+ and otherwise play a pot IP.

Having said all that, I think calling the openraise is definitely an option. You have position so you'll be able to play well postflop.

If you squeeze I'd make it $25-$26, it's sufficient to get them to fold and if they opt to call the 3bet OOP - great!
Furthermore it allows you to bluff more.

As played it's tough. Agains: I'm not really familiar with FR, but I guess given the ranges you have to fold to the 4bet.

Originally posted by Bierbaer

If you squeeze I'd make it $25-$26, it's sufficient to get them to fold and if they opt to call the 3bet OOP - great!
Furthermore it allows you to bluff more.

Very good observation, thx! It´s good idea because they will be more tempted to call PP or AK or do other kind of typical leak. I will incorporate it to my play - I did not realize that I actually want them to call MOST of all the other options ♦ Fold is nice but call from one of them makes me much more happy so it is perfect 3-bet sizing $25-26.

Originally posted by Bierbaer
As played it's tough. Agains: I'm not really familiar with FR, but I guess given the ranges you have to fold to the 4bet.

That´s a pitty. If you would be able to play some FR games to get experience and dynamics of FR, I would be glad to book some hours from you for private coaching. You have very good comments and affordable coaching rate And the post flop play is similar to SH, so you would only need to play some FR hands to understand preflop ranges and tendencies - btw I can coach you these comfortably ♦

but I don´t know if it is a good idea to play both SH and FR? It may harm your edge on SH if you start playing FR, specialization may be better. What do you think?

Originally posted by jekyll001
That´s a pitty. If you would be able to play some FR games to get experience and dynamics of FR, I would be glad to book some hours from you for private coaching. You have very good comments and affordable coaching rate And the post flop play is similar to SH, so you would only need to play some FR hands to understand preflop ranges and tendencies - btw I can coach you these comfortably ♦

but I don´t know if it is a good idea to play both SH and FR? It may harm your edge on SH if you start playing FR, specialization may be better. What do you think?

I think you should start playing SH obv ♦.

I think in general some level of specialization is good, but being able to play several different poker games - I'm not only talking about FR vs SH, but also PLO etc - will always make you a better poker player.
You can not only pick the best tables out of a bigger total number of tables, but it will also increase your skills in the other games.
F.e. in PLO you have to deal a lot more with equities than in NLHE, so it will give you a deeper understanding of NLHE as well.

When you play FR you are able to exploit nittier players, so once you're on a SH table and you're facing a bunch of nits you'll probably be able to adapt faster and more correctly.

Having said all that, I'm just not a big fan of playing FR because there's less action and I'm used to SH ;).

I may try to play SH, that´s np Actually, I had hard time to adapt to FR as I am by nature more aggressive player who likes action and is not afraid to play. I may do even better SH.

My target now is to be able to beat NL200 more easily. I only have 0,5BB / 100 profit in 100k hands on NL200 FR (+rakeback obv) but I played RUSH on FT all the time which I believe is more tough game than normal CG.. And FT has generally better players than smaller sites.

My short-term plan is to learn to grind NL200 FR rush on FT more easily and then move to PartyPoker and collect from the fish on NL100 and NL200 FR.

Do you think that it is a good plan? And would you also include SH games to that?

btw - look at this. I just applied your advice and it worked out perfectly. I think if I have squeezed pot (like 32) they would have folded ♠_cool:

I mean - your comments are really valuable and we use them to earn money ♦ ♦

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$1/$2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Known players:
[tg]MP3$145.55:///////;CO (Hero)$200.00:///////;BU$80.00:///////;SB$109.80:///////;BB$80.00:///////;UTG1$620.55:///////;UTG2$204.40:///////;MP1$114.55:///////;MP2$402.90:///////;[/tg]
Preflop: Hero is CO with K:d, K:h.
UTG1 raises to $7.00, 3 folds, MP3 calls $7.00, Hero raises to $26.00, 3 folds, UTG1 calls $19.00, MP3 calls $19.00.

Flop: ($81) 2:h, 5:c, 7:s (3 players)
UTG1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $35.00, UTG1 folds, MP3 raises to $119.55, Hero calls $84.55.

Turn: ($320.1) 5:d (2 players)

River: ($320.1) 4:h (2 players)

Final Pot: $320.1.

Results follow:

Hero shows two pairs, kings and fives(Kd Kh).

MP3 shows a pair of fives(Js As).

Hero wins with two pairs, kings and fives(Kd Kh).

Originally posted by jekyll001
btw - look at this. I just applied your advice and it worked out perfectly. I think if I have squeezed pot (like 32) they would have folded ♠_cool:

I mean - your comments are really valuable and we use them to earn money ♦ ♦

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$1/$2 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Known players:
[tg]MP3$145.55:///////;CO (Hero)$200.00:///////;BU$80.00:///////;SB$109.80:///////;BB$80.00:///////;UTG1$620.55:///////;UTG2$204.40:///////;MP1$114.55:///////;MP2$402.90:///////;[/tg]
Preflop: Hero is CO with K:d, K:h.
UTG1 raises to $7.00, 3 folds, MP3 calls $7.00, Hero raises to $26.00, 3 folds, UTG1 calls $19.00, MP3 calls $19.00.

Flop: ($81) 2:h, 5:c, 7:s (3 players)
UTG1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets $35.00, UTG1 folds, MP3 raises to $119.55, Hero calls $84.55.

Turn: ($320.1) 5:d (2 players)

River: ($320.1) 4:h (2 players)

Final Pot: $320.1.

Results follow:

Hero shows two pairs, kings and fives(Kd Kh).

MP3 shows a pair of fives(Js As).

Hero wins with two pairs, kings and fives(Kd Kh).

Donations are welcome ♦.

Originally posted by jekyll001
I may try to play SH, that´s np Actually, I had hard time to adapt to FR as I am by nature more aggressive player who likes action and is not afraid to play. I may do even better SH.

My target now is to be able to beat NL200 more easily. I only have 0,5BB / 100 profit in 100k hands on NL200 FR (+rakeback obv) but I played RUSH on FT all the time which I believe is more tough game than normal CG.. And FT has generally better players than smaller sites.

My short-term plan is to learn to grind NL200 FR rush on FT more easily and then move to PartyPoker and collect from the fish on NL100 and NL200 FR.

Do you think that it is a good plan? And would you also include SH games to that?

Uh I just saw this post, sorry for not answering it sooner.

Imo this is very player dependant, but if you are comfortable with the smaller number of players I think you should try to play on a few NL50 or NL100 SH tables and see how it goes for you.
I mean it's not like you have to move from FR to SH instantly, you can just try to play a session of 30-45 minutes on SH tables (or even just 20 minutes to see how it goes) instead or before your regular sessions.
Worst case: you wasted 20-45 minutes.
Best case: You have a ton of new tables available to play on (=> you can tableselect better) and the SH experience might even make you a better player in regards of handreading etc.

That´s np, thanks for comments. I may try SH some day soon. But actually I am now more comfortable on grinding up on NL200 FR - I earned +6,000$ in last 5 days on NL200 rush fr and it makes me like FR games currently ♦