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Midlife Crisis? What Midlife Crisis?

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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by TwiceT

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by TwiceT
if u had raised bigger the turn, the river is an even easier value bet. the "better" the player, the easier the river vbet becomes.
now question for u: WHY?

Because I'd be betting my busted draws so often? Fuck, I don't know. This is so much harder than maths. :f_cry:

Look. You made me cry!

no! try again. im off to 2 hours tennis coaching. will be on again in 3 hours. so u have 3 hours to give a correct answer.

3 hour exam for u now. g0g0g0g0!

Can I use being at work and having stuff to do as an excuse? Pffff! I'll keep at it. I feel like a frog being dissected in a biology lesson.


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Wriggers
Joined: 21.07.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Hmmm, is it because if he's calling a turn raise, raising bigger either induces a shove from the nuts, or a call from the draws/mediocre hands that we beat? Therefore a call means you can vbet the river, and either run into his completed draws, he folds his missed draws or he calls with his mediocre hands. Basically i'm saying the call to a bigger raise shows he has either a TPTK/overpair type of hand or a draw. The reason the bigger raise is relevant is because if you raise bigger it is more likely to induce him into a shove with the nuts.


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[ ] if ud raised turn big enough, better players might fold kj/other draws altho it seems bit close since were deep, they can also call.

[ ] sets shld alwys be reraising on turn. ur both deep, he has to get the money in somehow.

[ ] better players know jb is an aggromonkey and bluffcatching him

[ ] can merge vs some known players?

wait wat was the question? my head is killing me.

wait why do u say we are betting busted draws so often? shld we?

confused.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by TwiceT
when in fact your range is 2pair+ here 95% and suicide bluffs when u had to much tequila before the session 5%

So are you saying that if I were playing at a limit where good regs know this, what I wrote would be right, but not at NL25?

And also, would you argue in the same way if I had raised bigger on the turn?

I don't see how, if my range is 2 pair+ 95% of the time, I can expect a bet on the river to get called by a weaker hand.

I have seen the light. I understand that I don't understand. Since ignorance is the beginning of all knowledge, I am a happy fish. :f_grin:

Once I do understand, I will be able to explain it very clearly. Mr grumpy monkey man will be pleased.

But I do fail his poxy exam. Bah! :f_mad:


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wait. back up a sec.

YOU'RE mr. grumpy.

confusing me more


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by purplefizz
wait. back up a sec.

YOU'RE mr. grumpy.

confusing me more

No. You called me mr grumpy. I am, as my family and friends know very well, all sweetness, light and loveliness. Never a harsh word, I spread joy and inspiration to all who speak to me, and leave peace and calm in my wake.

Spoiler

So bog off lady! I'm NOT mr grumpy! Grrr! :f_mad:


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so sorry my mistake mr. light and joy of the world

Spoiler

:heart: mr grumpy needs a hug


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pokerprons
Joined: 30.09.2009
PokerStrategist

Hi jb
congratz on your milestone.
I have a question for you regarding rakeback (since you are the rake back pro ofc )
I've seen you post that you made 650$ + 350$ from rb from january or something? is that right? I'm thinking of switching to FT cuz i think the 27% rb is better then the milestone cashes you get at stars (at least for us micro stakes players), but you also get to purchase $$ from fpp points so I dont know if it's the same or is rake back still better?
Any thoughts?

cheers


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

I had another think about all this in the car on the way home whilst listening to Porcupine Tree at earbleeding volume. This usually helps.

Let's think about it from Villain's point of view if he has AQo. He raises pre and BB calls. He bets the flop with TPTK and BB calls again. He bets the turn and gets raised. If I'm in that position I'm usually folding, and I'm sure this helped me improve on NL10. BB always has 2 pair+. Semibluffing? Wtf is that? Most people on the micros don't do it. Now, if BB has a semibluffing range, then everything TT says makes sense. AQo is then a bluff catcher, and BB can get an extra bet out of SB on the river. So what it boils down to from my point of view is Villain's perception of my semibluffing range. If it's tiny, he's probably not flatting on the turn. If it's large, he is. And in the absence of any other reads, the size of my semibluffing range is very limit dependent, getting larger the higher the limit. But I still haven't passed the exam, because I didn't answer the question. :f_mad:


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MrMardyBum
Joined: 14.03.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Lol'ing at you agonising over this :)

That's all :P


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TwiceT
Joined: 15.07.2007
BlackMember

oh lol, i thought im coming home and i can read a rly in depth analysis from my prof ....

.... but instead he is in deep midlife crisis, only focusing on talking to tha hot young mamma from phili :f_biggrin:

back to topic:

Originally posted by jbpatzer
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($25.35)
Button ($26.63)
SB ($41.48)
jbpatzer (BB) ($56.46)
UTG ($29.84)
MP ($25)

Preflop: jbpatzer is BB with Q♣, 10:heart:
4 folds, SB bets $0.75, jbpatzer calls $0.50

Flop: ($1.50) 7♥, 3♠, Q♥ (2 players)
SB bets $1.05, jbpatzer calls $1.05

Turn: ($3.60) 10:diamond: (2 players)
SB bets $2.52, jbpatzer raises to $7.40, SB calls $4.88

River: ($18.40) 9♦ (2 players)
SB checks, jbpatzer checks

Total pot: $18.40 | Rake: $0.92

Results:
SB had K♣, J♠ (straight, King high).
jbpatzer had Q♣, 10:heart: (two pair, Queens and tens).
Outcome: SB won $17.48

lady purplefizz, i like your post. u mentioned some good points.

i will try to analyse the way i think we have to break it down:

- nl 25 sh: overall assumption: ppl think on level1, might be some good regs around, but mostly bad regs who have leaks in every part of their game.

- our turn raise is def way to small. in case he has a real hand (KQ, AQ, KK, AA) he is not going anywhere. ppl on micros/lows are not famour for folding tptk or overpairs. we need to raise big. getting value from his strong made hands (as mentioned before) and his strong (combo)draws like AhTh, 8h9h, AhJh. hence, our turn raise is purely for value. we have position and deep stacks. i would raise between 9.50 and 12.50, depending on how bad he is. vs rly bad plrs (aka fish) i raise 12.5

- another benefit of raising big (but thats not a reason for it! just a benefit!) is, that he will play his monsters straight forward. intuitively he will shove/re-raise his sets since u look strong anyway. and since we are almost 200bb deep effective, he wont re-raise 1pair hands, not even AA. so its a clear value raise and a fold vs a shove. also, those ppl below 400 do not shove 8h9h here imo or AhTh. they call cuz they have manyyyy outs and also (in case of AhTh) a made hand.

- another benefit of raising big is, that his draws are face up to us. he cannot call KJo anymore oop as well as J8o (the 2 hands that make a straight on the river). so there are only 2 combos, Jh8h and KhJh that make a straight on this particular river card. if he is a reg, he cannot call a big raise with KJo and even if he does, its super -ev anyway so we dont care.
hence, he either has a fd, mostly with a pair or a gs to go with or tptk or overpair.
on this river nothing beats us except KhJh and Jh8h. (in case we raised bigger). since we raised small, KJo might still be in.

- however, even if KJo is still in his range. u have to start counting combos (u are the math prof, u should be able to to id in 2 nano seconds!). and there are waaay more combos u beat, than those that beat u! way more.
accordingly, we have to bet the river for straight up value. in this case 12.5-14.5 imo. big enough that it can be a bluff and small enough that he can call his 1 pair hands that put u on suicidal bluff or hearts

- if u get shoved on, u are never good. literally, never! so its a bet/fold. even Th9h - which makes 2pair on the river - wont shove. and busted hearts wont suddenly think they have any folding equity. so they wont shove either.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by pokerprons
Hi jb
congratz on your milestone.
I have a question for you regarding rakeback (since you are the rake back pro ofc )
I've seen you post that you made 650$ + 350$ from rb from january or something? is that right? I'm thinking of switching to FT cuz i think the 27% rb is better then the milestone cashes you get at stars (at least for us micro stakes players), but you also get to purchase $$ from fpp points so I dont know if it's the same or is rake back still better?
Any thoughts?

cheers

The rake on the micros at Stars is significantly lower than on FT, and I think on NL10 this makes it even better than FT+rb. Beyond that I haven't looked as I just like FT. I'm a sucker for good marketing. As I've said before, you could sell me a bucket of arseholes if you marketed them to me nicely.


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Passing exams is over-rated


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

lololol simultaneous posting!


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TwiceT
Joined: 15.07.2007
BlackMember

Originally posted by jbpatzer
I had another think about all this in the car on the way home whilst listening to Porcupine Tree at earbleeding volume. This usually helps.

Let's think about it from Villain's point of view if he has AQo. He raises pre and BB calls. He bets the flop with TPTK and BB calls again. He bets the turn and gets raised. If I'm in that position I'm usually folding, and I'm sure this helped me improve on NL10. BB always has 2 pair+. Semibluffing? Wtf is that? Most people on the micros don't do it. Now, if BB has a semibluffing range, then everything TT says makes sense. AQo is then a bluff catcher, and BB can get an extra bet out of SB on the river. So what it boils down to from my point of view is Villain's perception of my semibluffing range. If it's tiny, he's probably not flatting on the turn. If it's large, he is. And in the absence of any other reads, the size of my semibluffing range is very limit dependent, getting larger the higher the limit. But I still haven't passed the exam, because I didn't answer the question. :f_mad:

very nice. u are making a (pretty big and dangerous) mistake in your thought process. u can find the answer in my post i just made.

which one?

exam 2: u got 1 hour

hint: its probably my single biggest leak i ever had and still have in poker. so im not free from the mistake u make here.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by MrMardyBum
Lol'ing at you agonising over this :)

That's all :P

Lol ye not o mardy one. This is how we learn. :f_biggrin:


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is it saying "boom! in yo face!" ?

oh wait

and you were so nice to me. _cry: im a lousy person.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by TwiceT

very nice. u are making a (pretty big and dangerous) mistake in your thought process. u can find the answer in my post i just made.

I would guess that my mistake is assuming that Villain would play the hand the same way I would.

I still don't think many people semibluff the turn or bluff raise the river on this limit.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by THESHade
Passing exams is over-rated

Random.

And no it isn't.


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jbpatzer Topic starter
jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009
Oldschool Grinder

Originally posted by purplefizz
is it saying "boom! in yo face!" ?

oh wait

and you were so nice to me. _cry: im a lousy person.

I never said that, so probably not. I can see that coaching tonight is going to be interesting.


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