Threadsavers (with a thread and gif hand histories)

Is there something wrong with me if I keep reading the 'facts' before I notice/look at the girls?

Originally posted by Fongie
Is there something wrong with me if I keep reading the 'facts' before I notice/look at the girls?

I do that too actually, i think we should be worried.

Originally posted by Alficor1
I play 12 tables and i usually can see if someone is acting quickly or not, but i will not base any of my decision on it. It's just so easy for someone to take a lot of time by accident, like you accidently minimise the table, or because he's talking to someone, had to go somewhere or w/e. I mean, are you gonna make a 100bb call based on someone taking 15 seconds more than you thought they do when they have a strong hand?

It does influence my decision and yes, I have actually recently made a 110 bb river call in a 3bet pot with second pair because of a timing + sizing tell. It's about putting all the pieces together not just one tell. Like, why tank call flop, snap call turn when some draw got there? Why snap cbet Axx board? Why tank cbet T98 board?

@Fongie: Facts are put in front of the girls. If the facts were in the background it would be a different story imo.

Originally posted by Alficor1
I do that too actually, i think we should be worried.

That makes us 3.

Imo VIP status is completely irrelevant up until SN. Although I play FL, but there's quite a lot of really poor players with gold at the micros.

I've never really been into NL, but one thing I always disliked which is the speed of the tables because it takes a lot of time for people to size their bets. On the other hand in FL it's much faster obviously. But, therefore I think timing tells are really usefull in FL. I have noted quite a lot of players with timing tendencies. The most common tell is when winning TAG's wait (a couple of seconds more than usual) before betting with the nuts and the second most common is when some poor players bluffs, they snap bets/raises even all streets with complete air.

Both of those are based on the observation that the longer it takes for someone to act, the more likely he/she has a weak hand, but if someone fires fast, than he/she has "nothing to think about" therefore has a strong hand and some players are trying to exploit this - and sometimes overdoing it.
It's somewhat similar to the shove vs bet argument (which looks stronger).

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
It does influence my decision and yes, I have actually recently made a 110 bb river call in a 3bet pot with second pair because of a timing + sizing tell. It's about putting all the pieces together not just one tell. Like, why tank call flop, snap call turn when some draw got there? Why snap cbet Axx board? Why tank cbet T98 board?

@Fongie: Facts are put in front of the girls. If the facts were in the background it would be a different story imo.

Wait, in PLO? Nice. But i think you're levelling yourself way too much with the timing tells.. I think there's so much randomness in timing that i dont want to get into it. But, as they say, each to their own.

Originally posted by Tarhonya
That makes us 3.

Imo VIP status is completely irrelevant up until SN. Although I play FL, but there's quite a lot of really poor players with gold at the micros.

I've never really been into NL, but one thing I always disliked which is the speed of the tables because it takes a lot of time for people to size their bets. On the other hand in FL it's much faster obviously. But, therefore I think timing tells are really usefull in FL. I have noted quite a lot of players with timing tendencies. The most common tell is when winning TAG's wait (a couple of seconds more than usual) before betting with the nuts and the second most common is when some poor players bluffs, they snap bets/raises even all streets with complete air.

Both of those are based on the observation that the longer it takes for someone to act, the more likely he/she has a weak hand, but if someone fires fast, than he/she has "nothing to think about" therefore has a strong hand and some players are trying to exploit this - and sometimes overdoing it.
It's somewhat similar to the shove vs bet argument (which looks stronger).

I think you see a lot of bad players with gold simply because like 90% of players have NLHE as their main game and 90% of them really suck at anything else. So you will see someone who is gold (and probably a pretty decent NLHE player) playing a different game just for fun without really knowing how to play. As an NL player, i can say that more often than not the status really equals to their skill level.

It's definitely true that the pace of game in FL is much faster than at NL. But like i said earlier, the speed with which you act is too random to matter to me. Btw, after PS introduced their custom bet buttons, its really easy to just bet 3/4 of the pot on all streets really quickly.

As i said earlier this post, i just think that if you really think too deeply about timing tells you will just end up levelling yourself waaay too much. And thats usually a bad thing.

_____________

Also what i wanted but forgot to say is that i bought myself a monthly subscription to Leggo Poker. I have to say that i really love aejones' vids, he's really funny and i learned quite a bit of stuff from him.

Nah, it was NLHE! ♦

Originally posted by Alficor1
As i said earlier this post, i just think that if you really think too deeply about timing tells you will just end up levelling yourself waaay too much. And thats usually a bad thing.

Couldn't agree more, and it's not like I play with a stopwatch in my left hand and the mouse in my right hand to come up with timing tells, I'm just saying in same cases it's so obvious that you can't help but notice it.

Found the river call I was talking about. Basically he snap shoved river. He is a spewtard and I've seen him overbet as a bluff before and smaller for value. When he instantly shoves I know he didn't think about his decision and just went on autopilot spew because if he was trying to level me into calling light because I saw him spew before and vbet smaller he NEEDS to stop for a second and think!

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
SB ($10)
BB ($18.91)
UTG ($13.39)
UTG+1 ($14.54)
CO ($6.89)
Hero ($14.93)

Dealt to Hero 8♣ J♣

UTG raises to $0.30, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.90, fold, BB calls $0.80, UTG calls $0.60

FLOP ($2.75) 9♠ 8♦ 5♠

BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

TURN ($2.75) 9♠ 8♦ 5♠ 5♥

BB bets $2.75, UTG folds, Hero calls $2.75

RIVER ($8.25) 9♠ 8♦ 5♠ 5♥ 4♣

BB bets $15.26 (AI), Hero calls $11.28 (AI)

Hero shows 8♣ J♣
(Pre 48%, Flop 85.8%, Turn 93.2%)

BB shows A♥ 2♦
(Pre 52%, Flop 14.2%, Turn 6.8%)

Hero wins $29.27

Tarhonya - yea, sure

Manu - Actually i did something similar today, but mostly because those big donk bets into a 3bettor are pretty much always total shit. He also did it instantly, but that didnt really matter to me.. I mean sometimes people tank thinking something like "oh i really should bluff, but do i have the balls? Let me reach to my crotch. Yes, i do have the balls." and sometimes they just bet without thinking about it. So i dont care about timing.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $17.46
UTG: $10.40
MP: $10.00
CO: $10.00
BTN: $10.00
SB: $12.97

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has K♦ 5♦

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90, SB calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80, 2 players) 5♣ 6♥ 8♥
SB bets $1.40, Hero calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.60, 2 players) 2♦
SB bets $3.00, Hero calls $3.00

River: ($10.60, 2 players) T♣
SB bets $7.67 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.67

SB shows A♥ 7♥ (High Card, Ace) (Pre 62%, Flop 69%, Turn 48%) - how did i fucking dodge this? ♠_o:
Hero shows K♦ 5♦ (One Pair, Fives) (Pre 38%, Flop 31%, Turn 52%)
Hero wins $24.77

Had a rly good session, played almost 3k hand and had a good profit. Played pretty well for the most part, made one or two mistakes along the way (decided to 6bet with 44 vs. a maniac - kinda meh and then i 5bet shoved AQ, but thats fine because i had some decent dynamics with my northern european friend and he could have easily been light here imo).

Had two lol hands:

¨

I was quite sure i was beat on the river both times, but i really wanted to see how PS raped me.

Savers:

I think second hand is fine on the river. 1st one is just spewy call!

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
I think second hand is fine on the river. 1st one is just spewy call!

Yea, but it was just five bones and i really wanted to see what kind of bullshit he called me twice with..

Had my probably worst session in cg ever run-wise. I cant really remember running like this.. Some of the beats were just horrendous. Im pretty happy about my mindset though, that i didnt go on a massive tilt and just ground and ground (thats past tense of grind fyi) and eventually made some money. I feel like my game and mindset is getting stronger every day i play and i feel pretty confident that i can move up to NL16/25 next week.

This hand was actually kinda lol.. Villain seemed to be a solid-ish 21/19 reg. I dont really know whats running thru people's head. Just because i 3bet like 8% from blinds doesnt mean i 3bet light every single time.. Or just because i 3bet someone 5 times in 2 orbits it doesnt mean that your 78o is gonna be good vs. my range..

This one was funny too. Well, at least he had some kind of plan. ♦

So i took a shot at NL16 again and it went quite well.. Obv good massively coolered in the very first hand for 100bbs (top set vs. turned gutshot in 3bet pot, nh sir, KQo is for sure a hand worth calling 3bets pre vs. unknowns), then i had some battles with an enormous russian spazztard (AJo vs. his AKo allin pre for like 40bbs) and some other. Overall finished like two buyins up in NL16, so whatever. Also played NL10 (8 tables NL10, 4 NL16) and that didnt go that well.. Ran kinda cold for the most part, it was like this: winning small pots - one decent win - 2 coolers for 50bb+ and again and again..

But im really happy with my game overall, so whatevs. Also now i'm on a bit of a hot streak, had 9 winning sessions in a row.

No really interesting hands in particular, just normal shit.

Savers:

So i didnt make 10 winning sessions in a row, damn. Lost around $40. Had a bit of a rollercoaster session, was quickly up $16, then down $60 and up $16, only to finish down $40. Had some really tilting hands, esp against a guy who probably is a big fan of Negreanu (and probably even bigger fish than DN), who was calling 3bets with anything suited and somewhat connected. Obv flopped gin vs. me twice and i gave him around 250bbs total. Also had some action with Russians as always. (i hate them so much, even when i win vs. them they tilt me). And there are some really lol hands from today:

And this one is the biggest genius ever. Pot sweetener ftw! ♦

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $21.62
UTG: $19.19
CO: $5.17
Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $5.75

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has J♦ 9♦

fold, CO raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.90,

fold, BB calls $0.80, CO calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.75, 3 players) 3♦ 7♠ 8♦

BB checks, CO bets $1.97, Hero raises to $9.10 and is all-in

, BB raises to $16.23, CO calls $2.30 and is all-in

Turn: ($25.22, 3 players) 6♠

River: ($25.22, 3 players) 8♣

BB shows 8♥ 7♥ (Full House, Eights full of Sevens) (Pre 20%, Flop 50%, Turn 52%)
CO mucks T♣ T♦ (Two Pair, Tens and Eights) (Pre 52%, Flop 14%, Turn 19%)
Hero mucks J♦ 9♦ (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 28%, Flop 36%, Turn 29%)
BB wins $24.09

lol at the J9 hand, well played

Wow, did you really just compliment my play? Never happened before ♦

did I ? ♦

Yep

Anyway, had my first quads vs. quads confrontation, villian was non other than a russian 70/10 wizard whose lossrate is 44,5 bbs/100h.

Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $8.69
BB: $30.83
UTG: $9.87
Hero (BTN): $19.36

SB posts SB $0.08, BB posts BB $0.16

Pre Flop: ($0.24) Hero has 7♥ 7♠

UTG calls $0.16, Hero raises to $0.48, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.32

Flop: ($1.20, 2 players) T♥ T♦ T♠
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.64, UTG calls $0.64

Turn: ($2.48, 2 players) 7♣
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.28, UTG calls $1.28

River: ($5.04, 2 players) 7♦
UTG checks, Hero bets $16.96 and is all-in, UTG calls $7.47 and is all-in

Hero shows 7♥ 7♠ (Four of a Kind, Sevens) (Pre 52%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
UTG shows T♣ J♥ (Four of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 48%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
UTG wins $19.08