W34z3l's W0rksh0p: Microstakes Myths

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In this "W34z3l's W0rksh0p" we look at debunking some of the common myths people believe at the micro stakes.


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Comments (37)

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  • fitzinator18


    Enjoy another W34z3l's W0rksh0p, focusing on Microstakes myths

    As always please leave feedback and suggestions in the comments section below!
  • eslchr1s


  • Okius


    Very nice video :) In fact all your videos simple, understandable and useful :) Keep it up
  • UltimateBlue


    Even rake, bots and colluders are discussed. Good.
  • tatisan


    Great video! Looking forward for the next one :)
  • barbeysize


    not every example is perfect but still fine video.
  • sniokers


    I think that you miss very important thing for microplayers:

    -choose pokerroom with low rake (not high rakeback!)

    low rake>>high rakeback
  • pechkin85


    losing life is not +ev, depending on what you think your life is woth tho. i think for most of homeless people it would be a nobrainer play.
  • pechkin85


    6h7h is obviously call, it widens our range and it gives us information(in case guy doesnt flip his hand over)
    but in given situation its a fold because of the rake.
  • w34z3l


    #8 There is no absolute equation in terms of how much money life is worth. Therefore, we cannot subtract one from the other in an EV equation because the units for measuring each are different. Purely considering the units of USD, it is a +EV situation. Should we purely think in terms of monetary value?? Of course not! That's the point!

    By the same token we cannot directly offset EV/value/money in terms of how much variance it is worth. We measure variance in different units to EV/value/money and cannot include them both in the same EV equation. In practice variance is entirely ignored in EV calculations even though it should factor into our decision making.
  • w34z3l


    #9 The situation is a theoretical one and is hence considered in a vacuum. Information and future perception of ranges has no value.

    "Widening your range" has a limited use at these stakes vs a lot of opponents anyway.
  • w34z3l


    #6 Please feel free to share which examples you had issues with.
  • w34z3l


    #7 Yeah, I certainly could have mentioned that. ALL rooms have high rake at micros compared to higher stakes though.
  • Erevos


    As always, nice video. Reducing variance at microstakes is important for those who can't always prevent tilt. I know it depends on the situation, but are there any other common spots should we fold, except for chasing marginally profitable draws? (e.g. facing overbets from aggro fish etc)

    Also, why nobody mentions which rooms do nothing about bots? Anyway, in my opinion pokerstars is the best room to play in every aspect.
  • sniokers


    13# I don't had on mind comparison rake at specific stakes (NL5 vs NL200) but the pokerrooms.
    For example NL5 PokerStars ~7bb/100, NL5 TitanPoker ~10bb/100

    3bb is a huge difference when we're beginners +rakeback is not as good as people think because requires very big volume (what majority are unable to do) to compensate higher rake.
  • w34z3l


    #14 Pretty much any situation that is close to break even. Video mentioned calling 100b AI shoves preflop vs unknowns, calling with marginal draws, making marginal calls preflop.

    This can translate to a variety of other situations. E.g set-mining in 3bet pots, 3betting excessively wide for value, playing too often OOP, playing too often against the regs instead of the fish. Avoiding all these situations somewhat will lower your overall variance.
  • w34z3l


    #15 I understood what you meant, and you are completely correct.
  • Tim64


    Really excellent video; thanks! It occurs to me that, in the 78s hand where we flop fd oop vs 2 opponnets, that we could still be aggressive with our draw by betting small. For ex., if we bet 1/4 pot on flop and turn and then much bigger if/when we hit our flush, we still make $ vs the calling stations (if they only call) because we get them to make a mistake vs our hand. So, it's not aggression per se that is the mistake, but rather betting an amount that gives us a bad price for our draw but no feq.
  • barbeysize


    1. russian roulette example is incorrect. you seem to presume there is no risk in it, just profit. "There is no absolute equation in terms of how much money life is worth", yes, but for most of the people 16% chance to lose life > some chance to get 1kk or whatever amount. so i think it's more about riks/profit then ev/deviation.

    2. 0ev call with combo draw on turn example is correct but quite pointless. sure with 0ev bb profit and 20bb or so dev. there's no need to call but that's not the point. point is (esp for microstakes players but not only) what ev/dev ratio we need to make that call. suppose 1bb in ev vs 20bb dev? or 2bb ev or 5bb?
  • w34z3l


    #19 I don't presume there is no risk in the Russian roulette example. That's why I state that most of us would refuse the chance. It's +EV with respect to USD only, as I explain in #10.

    The fact that you have written what you just did shows that the example had the desired effect and that you got the point. Not sure how/why the example is incorrect therefore.

    It illustrates that disregarding the loss of life would be foolish. But so is disregarding heavy variance in situations where we are chasing minute amounts of EV! Glad you got the point!

    I do not feel the example with the break-even call was pointless. I believe many micro-stakes have never thought of the situation from this angle. I.e "if you have the odds to call you MUST call".

    I mean, sure, perhaps it's pointless listening to someone talk about a concept if you personally are already familiar with it, but I don't feel everyone is familiar with this particular concept.

    Of course, taking into account rake, break even calls are actually losing calls anyway. So EV of folding is higher than EV of calling.

    As for the value of ev/dev that is up to the individual investors to decide.
    Variance as a drawback may seem a long way from the drawbacks of a russian roulette game, but perhaps not so far when you consider poker has the ability to destroy both your mental and physical health if you can't cope with the swings.
  • w34z3l


    #18 It seems as if you are describing a type of blocker-bet. I personally do not use block bets in my strategy. That doesn't mean there isn't merit to it.
  • barbeysize


    i just think we refuse to play rr not because it has big variance along with some +ev but because it just has -ev overall and no matter we can't estimate value of life in dollars and get exact number - we still understand it's much bigger then expected profit in best case scenario. so example is incorrect just in terminological sense - again, it's not about ev vs variance, it's just about ev.

    about the combo draw - should we call if it 0EV after rake? well, porbably not. but what if it slightly +EV (suppose opp's little shorter)? i think we should consider our brm somehow (if brm is tight we care less about variance and more about winrate). but yeah, we on our on in this :)
  • Omarhawk


    Very good vid! I hope your workshop will continue?
  • w34z3l


    #23 The series will now move on to some session reviews, possibly some live play too.
  • ionutd


    Please don't stop making videos.
  • ariwald


    Terrific videos series!!!. I'll recommend it to portuguese (includding brazilian)Pokerstrategists community. Congratulations on the clarity of ideas and didactically, W34z3l.
  • bogomirpuetz


    very good video. solid and understandable. just the way it supposed to be for micros.
  • AggroNitt


    Well the problem with tableselection ist that u cant choose your tables or your seat. U have to join waitinglists and to play the tables u get. The only thing u can do is to opensit a table and hope that weak players join u...
  • SpiderZorro


    VERY good video, easy to unterstand, some interesting and new items for me!

    Could you give some tips/advice of how to table-select?

    Which software could i use? Any idea for the low stakes or micros?

    Keep on producing videos! *****
  • bmfbpi


    good video, but i think it misses a thing at the 3betting part. Regarding 3betting for value, i think it's important if you dwell on the subject a bit more, for example, 3 betting for value not only to get the money in postflop, but the main idea of 3betting for value is that we can get called by worse. you only talked about a hypothetical villain who has a 90% fold to 3bet. If on the other hand the ATS were the same but his fold 2 3bet is 60% suddenly AQ becomes a 3bet for value.
  • coldchurch


    I dont understand why this video about microstakes is not for Silver members.
  • KKNgroup


    If we can recognize bot by some patterns (for example, taking time to move), are not then easier to exploit them with some extraordinary moves?
  • ConteCaly


    very beautiful... ty
  • a7jesus


    Nice video, thx
  • Laci24


    Thank you for the vid. :)
  • Caesar61


    So, he says we can control Variance? Cool!
  • msnek


    #10 Exactly! Great example. But I want to mention there are actually ways how to "measure" someones life in dollars. It is used not only in healthcare. Of course it is not accurate (how it could be, when its actually impossible, right?). Now the question is how much is it. Anyway, how much is my life worth can be told only by my self. And that applies to everyone. Someone mentioned homeless in here. Of course it would be a no brainer for someone, who doesn't price his own life very high. And this is actually another perfect example in terms of things you mentioned in the video. Things which are connected with what is right: 1) Is our bankroll big enough to take these high variance spots? 2) Are we tilting and stressed out after them? etc. etc. That means someone will take the risk and someone won't. Someone should and someone shouldn't Same as in the example with the russian roulette.

    Anyway GREAT VIDEO ! THX !