[Closed] Stupid regulars

Originally posted by Bliausmas

Originally posted by Alficor1

Originally posted by Bliausmas
Lets start with a hand example:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($10.86)
BB ($8.71)
Hero (UTG) ($18.69)
MP ($13.83)
CO ($10.39)
Button ($5.63)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A, A
Hero bets $0.20, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.30, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.05, CO calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25) Q, K, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $2.25, CO calls $2.25

Turn: ($6.75) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, CO raises to $7.09 (All-In), Hero calls $0.34

River: ($20.93) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $20.93 | Rake: $1.39

Fold on the river, there's four to a straight and you dont beat anything he'd shove on the turn for value.

Oh boy, how do you call that maneuver, "zombie fold"?

Honestly i dont think you had to go broke here, it's not exactly a great board for aces... I'd probably bet smaller on flop and turn to give myself room to get away from the hand.
About villains play, if you fold AJo on this flop why would you play it in first place?

And btw why did you create a topic about this?

Originally posted by Hahaownedlolz
I agree exept that i doubt that he was really floating. I do not believe he'd have reraised the turn if he hadn't hit it. Atleast the average nl10-25 player does not do that from my experience.

Just focus on improving. Post hands in hand evaluation forum, analyse hands, watch vids etc etc. goodluck at the tables.

Thanks!
And yeah, that's pretty much what my "tactical changes" are all about, recognizing and avoiding stackoffs in nasty spots. I believe it will work fine

Originally posted by Bliausmas

Well anyway, I've been thinking about my game very carefully these days and I think I found out my biggest problem because of which I was burning money. I was running OK-ish for like 125k hands, had NL10 almost beat, then fell into huge downswing (-52BI) for like 50k hands and now I'm trying to come back from this shit, but unsuccessfully. I'm gonna apply some simple, but crucial changes to my game and try it for like another 50k hands. If I don't come back after this - well, fuck it...

Some of my thoughts about NL10- you dont have to be balanced at all since almost nobody is thinking about what you are doing. I would be C-beting a lot of boards in position and C-beting them very small (like 1/2 POT) people just dont care if you bet 1/2 or 2/3 they just see their hand and the board and you betting(this is meant when you miss and the board is good to cbet, Cbet big for value). When they call your cbet and you have air just give up(you might want to try something against a reg, but 2nd and 3rd barreling is just a huge spew imo). I wouldnt make any big bluffs, its just not worth it from my experience people are not able to fold top pair etc(finding this out acctually cost me some money :)). I leak I had was that I was calling way too much out of position with hands like KJs, AJo witch is pretty bad imo, since on the flop you have to give up pretty much when you dont hit. Also I would 3bet small pairs from the blinds against agressive late-position-stealingmachines, because you just arent getting good odds for your set(well the odds are the same, its just less likely he has a real hand with witch he is willing to pay you off). My overpairs I would just bet,bet,shove almost always, people are going to pay you with so much worse...

Just some random toughts, dont take it too seriously i am not any expert proskilled elite player at all, this just seemed to work for me

Originally posted by Alficor1
Honestly i dont think you had to go broke here, it's not exactly a great board for aces... I'd probably bet smaller on flop and turn to give myself room to get away from the hand.
About villains play, if you fold AJo on this flop why would you play it in first place?

And btw why did you create a topic about this?

1. I was all-in on the turn, how could I fold on the river?
2. I created this topic for no reason, just for a rant, but I mentioned that in my first post.
3. Is your urge to reply the topic bigger than the need to read what is already written?

Originally posted by Bliausmas

Originally posted by Alficor1
Honestly i dont think you had to go broke here, it's not exactly a great board for aces... I'd probably bet smaller on flop and turn to give myself room to get away from the hand.
About villains play, if you fold AJo on this flop why would you play it in first place?

And btw why did you create a topic about this?

1. I was all-in on the turn, how could I fold on the river?
2. I created this topic for no reason, just for a rant, but I mentioned that in my first post.
3. Is your urge to reply the topic bigger than the need to read what is already written?

1. Have you ever thought that i could have been joking?
2. Didnt read
3. Yes

Originally posted by matusko
Some of my thoughts about NL10- you dont have to be balanced at all since almost nobody is thinking about what you are doing. I would be C-beting a lot of boards in position and C-beting them very small (like 1/2 POT) people just dont care if you bet 1/2 or 2/3 they just see their hand and the board and you betting(this is meant when you miss and the board is good to cbet, Cbet big for value). When they call your cbet and you have air just give up(you might want to try something against a reg, but 2nd and 3rd barreling is just a huge spew imo). I wouldnt make any big bluffs, its just not worth it from my experience people are not able to fold top pair etc(finding this out acctually cost me some money :)). I leak I had was that I was calling way too much out of position with hands like KJs, AJo witch is pretty bad imo, since on the flop you have to give up pretty much when you dont hit. Also I would 3bet small pairs from the blinds against agressive late-position-stealingmachines, because you just arent getting good odds for your set(well the odds are the same, its just less likely he has a real hand with witch he is willing to pay you off). My overpairs I would just bet,bet,shove almost always, people are going to pay you with so much worse...

Just some random toughts, dont take it too seriously i am not any expert proskilled elite player at all, this just seemed to work for me

Yeah that's very true. Value, value, and even more value - that's what important for those limits. You win when you bet or raise, you lose when you call. It's difficult to get used though Your point about cbet sizes is also good, I think I saw it in one of Verneer's video also - bluff tiny, value bet huge.
And now I feel like I already added all these crucial things into my play, and basically the two that I still need to add is avoiding bad spots and minimizing the losses. Well you know it sucks when you hit top pair on the flop, you bet big for value, you hit top two on the turn that also completes flush draw, you bet big for value again and yoink - you get a minraise. Sometimes the opponent might be bluffing here but 9/10 times he is not and you should save some money in this spot instead of going broke. Similar spots are killing me for like 2 weeks now

Originally posted by Alficor1

Originally posted by Bliausmas

1. I was all-in on the turn, how could I fold on the river?
2. I created this topic for no reason, just for a rant, but I mentioned that in my first post.
3. Is your urge to reply the topic bigger than the need to read what is already written?

1. Have you ever thought that i could have been joking?
2. Didnt read
3. Yes

1. No jokes in NL10, everyone's serious.
2. Too bad.
3. FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU.........................

Originally posted by Bliausmas

Originally posted by matusko
Some of my thoughts about NL10- you dont have to be balanced at all since almost nobody is thinking about what you are doing. I would be C-beting a lot of boards in position and C-beting them very small (like 1/2 POT) people just dont care if you bet 1/2 or 2/3 they just see their hand and the board and you betting(this is meant when you miss and the board is good to cbet, Cbet big for value). When they call your cbet and you have air just give up(you might want to try something against a reg, but 2nd and 3rd barreling is just a huge spew imo). I wouldnt make any big bluffs, its just not worth it from my experience people are not able to fold top pair etc(finding this out acctually cost me some money :)). I leak I had was that I was calling way too much out of position with hands like KJs, AJo witch is pretty bad imo, since on the flop you have to give up pretty much when you dont hit. Also I would 3bet small pairs from the blinds against agressive late-position-stealingmachines, because you just arent getting good odds for your set(well the odds are the same, its just less likely he has a real hand with witch he is willing to pay you off). My overpairs I would just bet,bet,shove almost always, people are going to pay you with so much worse...

Just some random toughts, dont take it too seriously i am not any expert proskilled elite player at all, this just seemed to work for me

Yeah that's very true. Value, value, and even more value - that's what important for those limits. You win when you bet or raise, you lose when you call. It's difficult to get used though Your point about cbet sizes is also good, I think I saw it in one of Verneer's video also - bluff tiny, value bet huge.
And now I feel like I already added all these crucial things into my play, and basically the two that I still need to add is avoiding bad spots and minimizing the losses. Well you know it sucks when you hit top pair on the flop, you bet big for value, you hit top two on the turn that also completes flush draw, you bet big for value again and yoink - you get a minraise. Sometimes the opponent might be bluffing here but 9/10 times he is not and you should save some money in this spot instead of going broke. Similar spots are killing me for like 2 weeks now

yeah this is hard for me too. Btw I read about a guy who played the micros with this strategy: everytime he gets raised and doesnt have the nuts(or something very close) he folds. He was able to beat NL10 for 8bb/10 witch is pretty impressive. I try to remind myself of this every time I get raised in a crappy spot(like the 2pair/flush thing). To beat these limits I feel you can stay weak-tight. To crush them you need a little bit more probably.

Whoa this is very impressive I'd say. It's probably true that as long as the regulars doesn't think about you like "oh look, mr. Nuts raising again, queens into the muck", you shouldn't worry about being exploited. Yep, lets save those tricky maneuvers for higher limits

Originally posted by MatejM47

Well you can't really call anyone playing NL10 a good reg so if you play them all as a bunch of donkeys you really can't go wrong with that.

+1.

Sorry, bad post, I misread the hand

Originally posted by conall88

Originally posted by MatejM47

Well you can't really call anyone playing NL10 a good reg so if you play them all as a bunch of donkeys you really can't go wrong with that.

+1.

Thanks chaps.

Let's assume that you always play the hand that way vs. him, and he always calls like that on flop. Inside str8 draw on flop odds with 1 card to come (because you will always bet pot on turn, i.e., all-in): 10.8:1 against.
He hits on turn and he payed 2.25 to win 7.09+2.25+2.25 = 11.59.
11.59/2.25 = 5.15. BEEP!
He doesn't hit on turn, then again he has 10.8:1 odds of making it, and he needs to pay 7.09 to win 13.84.
13.84/7.09=1.9. BEEP!

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by conall88

Originally posted by MatejM47

Well you can't really call anyone playing NL10 a good reg so if you play them all as a bunch of donkeys you really can't go wrong with that.

+1.

Thanks chaps.

10NL donk number 2 reporting

(I wonder how many we are)

think this hand qualifies to be posted here:

0,02/0,05 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with J, J
MP1 raises to $0,10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0,40, SB folds, BB calls $0,35, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($0,92) 9, 9, 9 (2 players)
BB bets $0,5, Hero raises to $1,44 (All-In), BB calls $0,94.

Turn: ($3,80) 6
River: ($3,80) Q (2 players)

Final Pot: $3,80

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows (Jh Jd)
BB shows a full-house, nines full of queens (Ks Qh)

BB wins with a full-house, nines full of queens (Ks Qh)

In the first hand the board was nasty already on the flop according to the villain's PF range, you could've bet smaller and either check/fold the turn or bet small/fold. No need to level yourself on such a board

Originally posted by jass1960

Originally posted by Bliausmas
Forgot to mention the outcome of the hand ♦ The opponent had AJo there.

...

You forgot the old adage - "play the man, not your cards!!!"

So you open with a min-raise......

Our hero is in the CO with AJo and looks at his HUD and his notes and thinks - "it's that fish, again! - prob got low pair, suited connectors, Ax (low x)". Hero fancies his hand and min-raises.

You 4 bet.

Our Hero thinks "min-raise, 4-bet - the classic AA/KK move or air - with this donk usually air" - so flat calls.

KQ7 rainbow flop

You bet the pot - our hero thinks - "I know he is an idiot.... but even Bliausmas, wouldn't try and scare me out out of the hand if he had AA, KK, 77 - must have air or low pair - let's be generous and put him on low pair - with 6 outs for a higher pair and 4 outs for the broadway straight - I reckon it's worth a flat call, as he probably has air anyway."

T on the river.....

And you bet the pot again....

Our Hero goes all-in and laughs his head off when he sees your rockets - Our Hero thinks..."Make a note - even more of a stupid donk than I originally thought!"

You rave about pot-odds and stupidity, but your betting pattern was awful and basically you were outplayed.... ♦

I can't really agree with you there...about the min raise opening. I've heard that limping UTG or min raising is bad but I've been beat a lot by assuming they have a bad hand. It's a pretty common tactic to use to trap with AA. If a guy 4 bets me from UTG I get very nervous. People don't want to lose their customers so bet small.

Also, why wouldn't you want to push your opponent off their hand or get them to call with AK or AQ? With that connector you could easily be up agains AJ or J10 so straights are a concern no?

I'm no superstar player but I don't think you can say he played it badly. You have the advantage of knowing the opponents hands. I honestely can't understand why the guy stayed in on the flop but with a 3 outer he did get lucky.

What's you idea? Check call the flop, turn river?

x

Originally posted by Alficor1

Originally posted by Bliausmas

Originally posted by Alficor1
Honestly i dont think you had to go broke here, it's not exactly a great board for aces... I'd probably bet smaller on flop and turn to give myself room to get away from the hand.
About villains play, if you fold AJo on this flop why would you play it in first place?

And btw why did you create a topic about this?

1. I was all-in on the turn, how could I fold on the river?
2. I created this topic for no reason, just for a rant, but I mentioned that in my first post.
3. Is your urge to reply the topic bigger than the need to read what is already written?

1. Have you ever thought that i could have been joking?
2. Didnt read
3. Yes

Having stuck up for you on the pre flop and flop betting I think when that 10 hit you should have shut down. Check call maybe then fold the river. Very possible your villain has a set of Kings, Queens or has just hit a straight on the turn. When the river hits and all he needs is a Jack to beat you on top of all that...you're in trouble.

Also, why wouldn't you want to push your opponent off their hand or get them to call with AK or AQ? With that connector you could easily be up agains AJ or J10 so straights are a concern no?

minraising is just stupid unless you are doing it because of a short stack acting after you.
Your hand has a certain value before the flop and a different value on the flop, firstly you dont want to give people good odds to call. Like if you minraise from utg and show me the aces by accident im calling any2 from the BB to hit my 2pair and stack you.
Secondly if you minraise and then 4bet...I mean thats KK+
And ofc you want to build up a pot with a good hand and not have a small mutiway pot with these hands imo.