KQs TP+FD vs 2 with strong flop action

Preflop we can't fold vs this sizing squueze, what You think about 4bet here? Call is good too.
On flop I prefer call here. Only Ace (without diamond) isn't good card for us. On 3way action here the worst scenario is when one player has set and second ace high flush draw. When SB go all in I think if You call or not button call all in too (3bet on flop for more than 40% his stack) so I think fold here is ok.

PF- I don't really lovee 4bet here. Although is a min-raise, SB range should be strong(ish) for him to raise Vs CO e BTN (probably even more considering he wanted action, with that min-raise. I don't think we have enough FE from SB to justify a 4bet and we also don't know if BTN will fold, I don't think that hand is strong enough in a possible 3way 4bet spot.

Flop- I prefer the raise against SB CBet. We have a strong hold, with strong draw. While the A♦ is our best run, other A makes a complicated board, as would non broadways, 9s and maybe 8s. This cards, if don't put us behind, could kill some action. All in all, after SB shown strength, and in generic 3 bet pots, I think raise here is the way.

This is the problem with raising on the flop in a multi way pot with top pair and a flush draw. Now you get in a situation you need to play for stacks and you need to hit the flush to win. I would most likely give up now. Calling seems like a decent alternative, but than there is always a change you face a raise of the BTN and than you get in most likely a similiar situation with less chips invested.

Cheers,
SDK1987

I don't understand why we make it so small pre-flop. What's the reasoning behind this? On NL10 we play versus a player pool that generally folds too much to c-bets, so now we win less money when they call pre and fold on the flop, which happens a lot. Standard would be 3BB from every position and 2,5BB on the button. Sometimes I see players on this forum with really strange sizes; I don't get it. Maybe someone can explain.

Because we make it so small I find it difficult to put SB on a range. Maybe he thinks the same as I do and clicks it back, because if he just calls the BB can literally see a flop almost for free, with great pot odds.

As played, I 4-bet to get heads-up in position (worst case, because BTN range is weak) and fold to a 5-bet. We have a great hand to 4-bet bluff with because we block so many value hands.

As played on the flop, I just call his c-bet, because like many said before me, you don't want to cap his range to sets.

Originally posted by LookAwayNow
I don't understand why we make it so small pre-flop. What's the reasoning behind this? On NL10 we play versus a player pool that generally folds too much to c-bets, so now we win less money when they call pre and fold on the flop, which happens a lot. Standard would be 3BB from every position and 2,5BB on the button. Sometimes I see players on this forum with really strange sizes; I don't get it. Maybe someone can explain.

Exactly!
If you open so small you create multi-way pots — the very thing you want to avoid.
This is due to the fact that you give SB and BB pot odds to call quite widely, even if BU doesn't flat.
If BU does flat, all of a sudden BB is getting better than 5:1 pot odds, and there is no hand in the deck that has less than 20% equity.

As LookAwayNow says, now when you get a hand that smashes your range, and CBet, and everyone folds, you've won much less. You also lack the impression of strength with your weak-looking pre-flop bet.

Yes, yes, yes, I know that the post-GTO school of thought is to open small, and play post-flop. The catch is that you have to hit flops to play this way.

In my case, is because I have a wide OR from CO and BTN, that I sometimes need to fold and also, I kind of trust my post-flop play.
I don't know about others, but NL10+, I see a lot of 3bet and 4bet light and I also do my share of it. If I'd be opening same size as in NL2, I would lose a lot, just by the necessary folds to 3bets.

Nonetheless, if the sizing is wrong, PStrategy should review options for coaches, as I'v been misseducated.

Originally posted by yangmartins
Nonetheless, if the sizing is wrong, PStrategy should review options for coaches, as I'v been misseducated.

Discuss it with your coach, and understand the reasons for your small open raise.
Ask your coach to discuss the pros and cons of different open-raise bet sizes from all positions.

If you're doing so to set up post-flop play, fine, but that means you'll need to be opening fairly wide.

I would be greatly interested in what ranges such a plan would have for open-raising 2.5x from CO
This is the CO open-raising range I use. I tighten up if BU, SB and BB play back more, and widen the range if they're tighter, but in all cases, the open-raise is 3x

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Discuss it with your coach, and understand the reasons for your small open raise.
Ask your coach to discuss the pros and cons of different open-raise bet sizes from all positions.

Not mine, PStrategy coach playing NL25. If you want, I can also share NL10, lots of interesting concepts. I've learnt a lot.
Iirc, only exception is on SB, but I may be wrong and it'd be 3 on CO. I often adjust for more if I know SB/BB are whales, but as a standard, I think I'm following. Would be interesting, though, to know what coaches have to say on that.

This is not even related to my hands discussion actually, but I'll gladly discuss this.

Oh cool — thanks for posting the video link.
I have a lot of respect for MartaiMrko.

from the video description
MartaiMrko gives you all the necessary tools to understand what should be your GTO-approach to hands. But at the same time there are population specific exploits that you can exploit to improve your winrates, rounded off with player specific reads.
GTO, Population tendencies and specific reads together make sure your winrate grows!

The ranges I'm using come from https://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/
Go there an look for "6-max pre-flop ranges"
Although this is pre-GTO, there are some splitting of hands between call/3Bet and so on, as well as some 3Bet bluffing ranges.
The major difference appears to be in the bet sizing.

Originally posted by yangmartins
Not mine, PStrategy coach playing NL25. If you want, I can also share NL10, lots of interesting concepts. I've learnt a lot.
Iirc, only exception is on SB, but I may be wrong and it'd be 3 on CO. I often adjust for more if I know SB/BB are whales, but as a standard, I think I'm following. Would be interesting, though, to know what coaches have to say on that.

This is not even related to my hands discussion actually, but I'll gladly discuss this.

I would like to investigate this further also. After I've watched the video perhaps we can create a bet-sizing discussion elsewhere.

All the best,
VS

I have no problem with the bet sizes.
I don’t think I would reraise here in a mw 3bet pot.
The top of your range would be nut FD, sets and two pair.
Are there worse hands that call your reraise here, except for the few broadway FD, that you block, and the OESD, which you also block? QJ? JT?

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
If BU does flat, all of a sudden BB is getting better than 5:1 pot odds, and there is no hand in the deck that has less than 20% equity.

Funny fact is that BB should actually fold more after BU call. Sure he has odds, but many of those slight EV+ defends turns into EV- calls as you have less implied odds and bigger reverse implied odds, especially with all those juicy suited hands.

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Yes, yes, yes, I know that the post-GTO school of thought is to open small, and play post-flop. The catch is that you have to hit flops to play this way.

Catch is that with small sizing you force BB to defend wide which will be harder for him to defend postflop. Also small sizing gives you more opportunities preflop as you can call looser to smaller 3bet and always have option for normal 4bet.
In theory difference between sizings is not big but if you want to climb stakes then you should stick with smaller one because you can find learning material a lot easier. 3bb open can change sometimes a lot how you should approach given spot.

Originally posted by LookAwayNow
On NL10 we play versus a player pool that generally folds too much to c-bets, so now we win less money when they call pre and fold on the flop, which happens a lot.

I never know that poker hand ends after flop..

Originally posted by EmiyaKiritsugu

Originally posted by LookAwayNow
On NL10 we play versus a player pool that generally folds too much to c-bets, so now we win less money when they call pre and fold on the flop, which happens a lot.

I never know that poker hand ends after flop..

Surprising how many hands do end there — which is the point of the CBet after all.

If your opponent is overfolding cbet then he is making small mistake. However its a lot easier for you to make bigger mistake on turn or river when you are on very loose range and other player range is already filtered by flop cbet.