Onmybike's edge 1000$ 9 max 4 way

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
you are also forgetting that there is a LOT of value in finishing the bubble knocking out your 1 chip opponent with quad aces (in your example).

this is just never going to be an FGS edge you can gain in a real life practical example.

You are over-estimating the FGS value of having a 1 chip stack next hand. Comparatively there is more value in finishing the bubble for the winner of the hand and not prolonging the bubble.

you wrong for sure i can even in your games find 1000 of spots where it is better to let a guy stay around with 1 (and then you raise to stack villian-1). I do not talk about fish but about very good player who both think very wel there is not a good reasen to go allin with 1. you wil have 0% FE.

the person with a value-hand post-flop will never want to check it down because the FGS value of having a 1 chip stack next hand is lower than the value of finishing the bubble

I just came here to say that this is an epic thread.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
the person with a value-hand post-flop will never want to check it down because the FGS value of having a 1 chip stack next hand is lower than the value of finishing the bubble

do you not believe in randomness? there is no reason to raise 1 for protection because the other one will call 100%. it does not change anything if you raise 1 the guy on the and with the best hand wins. do not matter if you raise your 1 chip or not.

Originally posted by onmybike
there is not a good reasen to go allin with 1. you wil have 0% FE.

no, i understand that. but if 2 good players are post-flop and 1 player has a good flop he is going all-in. the value of knocking out your opponent is more than FGS gains (i dont know how many more different ways I can say this)

Originally posted by kurrkabin
I just came here to say that this is an epic thread.

lol thx :P. but do you understand what i mean and why it is good for hero as for villian to do this?

Originally posted by onmybike
it does not change anything if you raise 1 the guy on the and with the best hand wins. do not matter if you raise your 1 chip or not.

yes it does
the bubble is finished and you cash. that is a pretty big deal

Originally posted by lessthanthreee

Originally posted by onmybike
there is not a good reasen to go allin with 1. you wil have 0% FE.

no, i understand that. but if 2 good players are post-flop and 1 player has a good flop he is going all-in. the value of knocking out your opponent is more than FGS gains (i dont know how many more different ways I can say this)

ha but did you not see my calculations? that prove otherwise

Originally posted by lessthanthreee

Originally posted by onmybike
it does not change anything if you raise 1 the guy on the and with the best hand wins. do not matter if you raise your 1 chip or not.

yes it does
the bubble is finished and you cash. that is a pretty big deal

when you have 12299 and other one has 1 you al like 99,99% at least 3 but you make the change bigger to get 1ste because you can put the presure on the other guys who wait til the one with 1 chip wil bust? do you understand whta i mean?

How about both opponents are aware to this possible (even if unlikely) fgs advantage, so now it would become profitable raising to 5998 instead and maybe having a fold equity postflop?

Originally posted by Zaonce
How about both opponents are aware to this possible (even if unlikely) fgs advantage, so now it would become profitable raising to 5998 instead and maybe having a fold equity postflop?

haha lol epic comment :P.

Originally posted by onmybike
ha but did you not see my calculations? that prove otherwise

no they dont, your calculations do not prove otherwise.

your calculations are 2 nash situations.
you have not proven that there is more value in checking it down with 2 good players to keep a 1chip stack next hand compared to cashing.

you have shown 2 unique situations which are both +$EV in vacuums.

You are not using the nash calculator correctly, nor do you understand an FGS calculation correctly.

But if you have say AQ and you completely miss, wouldnt you consider folding this 1 chip? if you think of it with 2 chips instead of one you have to make 1 less double up to get back in shape, that, you will understand, its a great advantage long run

ok look this is on your way: (when hero go allin and win and there is no bubble anymore)

this is my way: when there is a guy with 1 left do you see how much the differnce are.

When you look to both you can see that the EQpost% is way higher in my way then in your way! don't kill the bubble is more +EV in this situation (an in alot of then where there is a guy with 1 and you are bigstack)

no because getting 1200:1 pot odds will mean that you will actually have the best hand often enough to make that 1 chip post-flop shove profitable.

the only way that would ever be good is if you could see your opponent's exact hand and fold when you are drawing dead.

Originally posted by Zaonce
But if you have say AQ and you completely miss, wouldnt you consider folding this 1 chip? if you think of it with 2 chips instead of one you have to make 1 less double up to get back in shape, that, you will understand, its a great advantage long run

you wil always cal anything postflop. But i am really serieus about this you think that i am joking that i left 1 behind, I am not.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
no because getting 1200:1 pot odds will mean that you will actually have the best hand often enough to make that 1 chip post-flop shove profitable.

the only way that would ever be good is if you could see your opponent's exact hand and fold when you are drawing dead.

come on he is just joking. please i mean this seriues and a really think that i have found some new stuff. (people in the netherland community the think it is really working)

Originally posted by Zaonce
But if you have say AQ and you completely miss, wouldnt you consider folding this 1 chip? if you think of it with 2 chips instead of one you have to make 1 less double up to get back in shape, that, you will understand, its a great advantage long run

you are never going to fold because a good player will never bet on flop turn or river!

your mathematical justification is wrong. your 2 screen shots are not proving your hypothesis.

this screen shot is 3 handed

the EVs are in a vacuum

this screen shot is 4 handed

the EVs are in a vacuum

-----

those 2 hands are completely different, seperate and non-connected calculations which do not show any FGS nor do they prove your hypothesis.

ok let see you really think at this:

BU (hero) 12300
SB 3200
BB 3000

is better for hero then:

CO 1
BU (hero) 12299
SB 3200
BB 3000

with situation wil you prefer? 1ste or second.

I am sure that hero is making in the long term more money in situation 2 then in situation 1. Do you agree with that?