Defending vs. 3bets at the micros

Perfect timing, I'll bring this up in tonight's coaching
bookmarked
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=3010674#post3010674

Hi Lemon watched your life session recording on this and 3-bets to take down pots to avoid rake etc.
I play on GG poker (can't play anywhere else due to restrictions) which rakes a hand pre-flop if a 3-bet is made. Should we play even tighter now 3-bet IP as every hand will be raked or should still aim for takedown?

Sorry for going bit offtopic with the question Dandiiik.

Thats fine, your question is actually regarding the topic.

Yesterday at the coaching I picked up 2 important pieces of information regarding 3 bet spots:

3bet spots occur quite often nowadays even at the micros - now while this is true it doesnt necessarilly mean you have to be loose and defend a lot. Especially due to high rake which will eat you up.
if you manage to climb up, people will 3bet and defend against 3bets more and more and you need to be ready for this - this is true as well but you can adjust to this when climbing up. You dont have to practice to play like you were at NL100 if you are stil at NL5. It will come gradually and you will build up the habits along the way.

Realizing this actually helps me shrug off some weight from my shoulders because I am on the nitty side when it comes to 3 bet spots and I was trying to find ways to get looser and defend more. So I guess that for now I can remain nitty and focus on widening my 3bet ranges later.

But Pokerstars might have solved my problems for me since they capped regular tables to 2 which is unplayable ♦

Come to GG Poker ♦ still 4 tables here ♦
Also their zoom tables NL are raked capped at 3bb normal + 1bb for their bonus progam if the pot goes above 30bb if I understand it correctly. This is actually pretty good. ( https://en.ggpoker.com/poker-games/rush-cash/ ). I don't get anything to post this but this is a pretty low rake for NL10.

Also yeah I am adjusting my 3-bet defense tighter at the moment as I was used to having it more loose, but my raise range is still wide as there are no HUDs at GG so nobody knows.

Dandiii when you 3-bet yourself from SB or BB, how big do you make it? I usually put bit over 4x if it was a 2.5bb raise from button and a bit over 3x if it was a 3bb raise from button. Am wondering if I should adjust this lower as well.

I would go to GG but its probably illegal in our country. We can officialy play at PS and Party + one small Czech client. I will be patient now and see how this plays out.

I adjust my 3bet sizing according to whether I am IP or OOP, how large the original raise is and my opponents. Generally - OOP, small open raise and weak opponents = larger sizing. IP, big raise, better opponent = smaller sizing. By default I make it 3,5x OOP and 3x IP. If I 3 bet against a fish then the stronger the hand the bigger the raise usually. Many fishes sometimes just minraise, so I make it 5x maybe even more if there are other fishes who could call.

In my country is not illegal to play, its just illegal to deposit the money. But its possible to avoid it by depositing on one money transfer system and ticking the box that you will not use for gambling (and if you try to deposit that money directly it's impossible) but you can transfer to another your own account but different company and then you can deposit because you wasn't asked. Basically the law says that you can't send the money earned in my country but if you earn from worldwide then you can deposit it. Hehe strange right?

This is very useful coaching, Tnx. I'll have to try it.

So I have a few 3bet hands which were quite tough for me today. And this is exactly the type of spots where I feel I bleed money - I 3bet, I hit nothing, I dont know what to do next. I have seen and studied Weazels video on playing against 3bets and here are some of my learnings which apply to micros:

overfolding against 3bets is just a small leak whereas overcalling them might be a massive leak. Because you get to many awkward spots with marginal hands and without proper postflop skill which I dont have, it can be a disaster.
flatting against a 3bet OOP is almost never necessary. If I am OOP I should 4bet or fold most of the time. Flat just a very niche part of my range.
one huge population read against micro regulars - they overcbet 3bet flops and undercbet turn. So I can exploit this by stabbing turn very often but respect a second barrel a lot.
so the standard defend line against 3betters should be - call preflop, call flop, bet turn. The same thing goes for attacking check on the flop which can either be a slowplay or a complete air. X/r flop in a 3bet pot should be respected.

I have a few 3bet hands to review. Not only as a defender, but also as a 3better.

Please comment on the hands what you think. And feel free to post your own

1: Seems ok and I'd call flop too and just fold turns
he'll have all AK combos + AJs and can be one and done with those
2: WP vs aggro guy
He's repping a pair very well with that size I'd just let him have it
3: Just cbet smaller, does the same thing vs air and you let him call more Ahighs he can then X down

Dandiiik, I would like to add something for NL2:

Hey, I'm new here, but at micro limits 3betting pots aren't expensive in rake terms.
Wouldn't be better to go post-flop with lower risk and increase hand equity street by street and take pot control and just make a huge pot post-flop with a great showdown value.

@LemOn36I will watch/learn your vids

Hi PoKerBu3, hope you have a great one!

Originally posted by PoKerBu3

Wouldn't be better to go post-flop with lower risk and increase hand equity street by street and take pot control and just make a huge pot post-flop with a great showdown value.

You cant say that in general. There are certainly many situations where you want to 3bet a thus make the pot bigger preflop already. You might either want to get called/stacked off against a weaker range so you want to get as much value as possible. Or you can spot a good situation to 3bet bluff. Typically against players who open raise and then fold to 3 bet too much. You exploit their weakness. Or when you are on a BB, BU opens, SB calls. This is another good spot to 3bet many hands because the ranges of both BU and SB are very wide and you are likely to collect the dead money preflop.
Another typical scenario at the micros is that someone open raises and gets called by one or two other players. When you have a value hand you certainly dont want to play multiway against 3 opponents by just calling. So it is much better to 3bet for value.

There are certainly many other situations. If you are new to poker and Pokerstrategy, I can recommend the video series Walkthrough by W34z3l. But it is silver so you might wait for a while before you reach the status.

Originally posted by Dandiiik
Hi PoKerBu3, hope you have a great one!

Originally posted by PoKerBu3

Wouldn't be better to go post-flop with lower risk and increase hand equity street by street and take pot control and just make a huge pot post-flop with a great showdown value.

You cant say that in general. There are certainly many situations where you want to 3bet a thus make the pot bigger preflop already. You might either want to get called/stacked off against a weaker range so you want to get as much value as possible. Or you can spot a good situation to 3bet bluff. Typically against players who open raise and then fold to 3 bet too much. You exploit their weakness. Or when you are on a BB, BU opens, SB calls. This is another good spot to 3bet many hands because the ranges of both BU and SB are very wide and you are likely to collect the dead money preflop.
Another typical scenario at the micros is that someone open raises and gets called by one or two other players. When you have a value hand you certainly dont want to play multiway against 3 opponents by just calling. So it is much better to 3bet for value.

There are certainly many other situations. If you are new to poker and Pokerstrategy, I can recommend the video series Walkthrough by W34z3l. But it is silver so you might wait for a while before you reach the status.

Yes!
3betting to avoid mw pots
Bu vs SB
You are right! There are situations that 3bet is the right tool
Searching off by W34z3l serie walkthrought

Una buena recomendación para los que estamos e micros

Originally posted by HERRERO85
Una buena recomendación para los que estamos e micros

Si pressupuesto - los chicos hablam ingles ...:censored:

Hi,

To add to this what if it's the other way around. If we are the 3-bet aggressor in the blinds and get called and do not hit. I do exactly this:

one huge population read against micro regulars - they overcbet 3bet flops and undercbet turn. So I can exploit this by stabbing turn very often but respect a second barrel a lot

How do we continue on the turn or should we give up flop? Two examples where I know I play like a fish, but not sure how to improve this:

Hand 1
Hand 2

Originally posted by Dragar
Hi,

To add to this what if it's the other way around. If we are the 3-bet aggressor in the blinds and get called and do not hit. I do exactly this:

one huge population read against micro regulars - they overcbet 3bet flops and undercbet turn. So I can exploit this by stabbing turn very often but respect a second barrel a lot

How do we continue on the turn or should we give up flop? Two examples where I know I play like a fish, but not sure how to improve this:

Hand 1
Hand 2

My understanding about hands you had shared:
1st hand weak showdown value and I supposed you should play 3betting because your primary plan should be just calls for set value.
2nd hand there aren't showdown value.

I've never heard about this population read.

Originally posted by Dragar
How do we continue on the turn or should we give up flop? Two examples where I know I play like a fish, but not sure how to improve this:

Hand 1
Hand 2

In the first hand I wouldnt 3bet preflop. I think good regs would do it on higher stakes but I also think on micros we can get away with just calling for setmining. The thing is that you blow the pot out of position with a hand that is gonna end up being an underpair on 90% of flops and you will either have to check/fold or stone cold bluff with no equity. In these positions you can definitely 3bet bluff hands like Axs or suited connectors or one gappers. Hands that have no showdown value but they are also well playable postflop with a lot of good flops for semi bluffs and with low probability of being dominated. Postflop you played it fine. You have almost nothing and he didnt give up so I like the pot control.

I like the preflop play in hand 2. He looks like a weaker player (doesnt have full stack) so we want to 3bet for value for sure. On this flop though I would treat the hand as a way ahead/way behind situation. Meaning that he either has much worse hand than you (like KQ or T9 or AJ etc.) which you dominate and which have very little equity against you. Or he has you beat with overpairs or full house. With that in mind I would go for a check/call at least once or maybe even twice on good turns and according to sizing. If you bet you probably make worse hands fold and better call, so you just isolate yourself against better.