Originally posted by zivkoleo
Originally posted by opal99
Originally posted by CoreySteel
Originally posted by zivkoleo
Edit: btw do you know are the FL tables at Cake Poker?LOL, this is the thing I was just asking myself.
I know why you are thinking about Cake Poker... You saw TOP10 rake race, right? ♦There are some tables at peak hours.
We all think about the same apparently
♦ ♦ ♦
Why don't you guys just get a room? 
Forgive me if i missed, but how do you determine how many points you will get on each platforms?
So your script analyzed every hand you played (rake amounts) and checked how many titan points would have been awarded?
Now all we need is a Titan vs Pokerstars ♦
I'm trying to determine if I should play at both or one or just clear a deposite bonus at Titan and leave.
Pokerstars.com Rakeback Equivalent
•BronzeStar (all players receive BronzeStar on first deposit) - 7 - 11%
•SilverStar 1,200 VPPs 10 - 15%
•GoldStar 3,000 VPPs 12 - 18%
•PlatinumStar 7,500 VPPs 14.5 - 22%
•Supernova 100,000 VPPs (Yearly) 21.5 - 29%
•Supernova Elite 1,000,000 VPPs (yearly) 29 - 45%
here are some numbers I found. I dont know if this is going to help you at all but it gives you a rough estimate of rakeback at each level.
Well to be honest... This doesn't help much 
These numbers are probably taken from an 2+2 article, where they are calculating rake compensation. But they also include all potential winnings in freerolls and stuff.
Also.. 40% at Titan isn't the same as 40% at PokerStars, because perosnal rake is much lower at PS.
Aright I got a list of personal rake numbers at pokerstars and I'm going to do the breakdown myself.
What I need is a personal rake breakdown of Titan at 1/2 and 2/4 if anyone has it because I'm having a heck of a time finding it.
Edit: Scrap that I think I found proper rake rates for both.
Titan vs Pokerstars Bonus Whoring Stats.
1 / 2 12 Table 40 Hours a Week (Calculations done on 180,000 hands per month)
Titan Points: 427,440 Per Month At 80 points a dollar = $5343.00
Rake Paid During Play (85 hands an hour per table) = $6.24/100 (based on 3.12bb/100 rake) = $11232.00
Profit = 47.57% Rakeback
Pokerstars Points: 173,376 Per Month At 0.016 cents per point = $2774.02
Rake Paid During Play (85 hands an hour per table) = $4.80/100 (based on 2.40bb/100 rake) = $8640
Profit = 32.01% Rakeback
You get more rakeback at Titan but at Stars you pay $2592 less rake. So basically at this limit both sites are near twins. There is actually a $26 a month profit at Stars over Titan.
2 / 4 12 40 Hours a Week (Calculations done on 180,000 hands per month)
Titan Points: 857,460 Per Month at 75 points a dollar = $11,432.80
Titan Points: 857,460 Per Month at 71 points a dollar = $12,076.90
Rake Paid During Play (85 hands an hour per table) = $12.80/100 (based on 3.20bb/100 rake) = 23,040.00
Profit at 8k Bonuses = 49.62%
Profit at 14k Bonuses = 52.42%
Pokerstars Points: 242,725 Per Month At 0.016 cents per point = $3883.60
Rake Paid During Play (85 hands an hour per table) = $7.28/100 (based on 1.82bb/100 rake) = $13104.00
Profit = 29.64% Rakeback
Once again you get more rakeback at Titan, but at Stars you pay $9,220.40 rake. At the 8k bonus rate you pay $11,607.20 gross rake, which is $1800 behind Stars. At the 14k bonus rate you pay $10,963.10 after all is said and done, but once again this is still lacking behind Stars by over 1,500 a month.
Lets do Titan points per month at the highest bonus, $120,000.
Titan Points: 857,460 Per Month at 58 points a dollar = $14,783.79
So this means your gross rake is $8,256.21. At the top bonus rate Titan is actually beating Stars. This requires us to purchase a massive bonus though, meaning you will be getting paid at this limit less than once every 8 months. So where does it break even? Well lets do the only other bonus at Titan, the $39,000 bonus.
Titan Points: 857,460 Per Month at 64 points a dollar = $13,397.81
Even the $39,000 bonus comes short of the Stars bonus rates. Gross rake at this level is 9,642.19 which is $400 dollars more rake than Stars. On top of this you can only unlock this bonus once slightly less than every 3 months.
Lets talk about the Stars bonuses. it’s a 4,000 bonus that can be unlocked once a month at 2 / 4 and once every 1.5 months at 1 / 2. Now with all of this taken into account, Stars bonuses are not instant. You have to unlock them but it should only take about one third of a month at 2/4 and just a little over half a month at 1 / 2. Obviously if you are grinding for the next bonus this will automatically be unlocked.
I hope this helps answer my question and if I did something wrong please let me know Corey. I knew this Uni math would be useful for something.
(If you have different rake numbers for Titan or Stars let me know)
Edit: In the end if you play this volume at 3/6 you will obtain SuperNova Elite at the 10 month mark. At this point Pokerstars utterly DESTROYS every other site, but for this comparison I wanted to do Supernova which is more attainable for the average player.
180k hands per month!?
Are you fckin crazy? 
I'm doing like 1/10 of that ♦
Did you count PokerStar's milestones too?
Haha well, I sort of am crazy. I'm the type of person that is able to grind out mass amounts of something for long periods of time. Its probubly my best trait as a "worker".
As for the milestones (which I had thought about), It seems they only pay out at a rate of $0.01 per point unlike the 4k bonus which pays out at $0.016 which means they would be similar to Titans top bonuses at Supernova Elite, but at Supernova would come up way short. Therefore I left them out of the calculation.
I started this post out hoping that Titan was going to have better bonus whoring than Stars does because I still have a first deposit bonus there and because the bad Euros that are on during what is my day time would be playing. But allas it seems Stars has a much better well rounded system and I have to be nocturnal to play the weaker players.
Another crazy thing that I didn't do calculations on yet but should is that the break even point of bonus whoring over the long term is something like -1.50 BB/100. It seems that if you play break even/maginal winning poker at micro stakes then your going to be a big winner bonus whoring.
Of course I dont expect to make "profit" of any great value whoring at .5/1 but if you played half of the volume in a month you would still almost clear a $685 bonus. Thats pretty darn good for a .5/1 FL player. It seems more and more that FL was made to be whored and not to be a short tabled skill game.
Where did you get that 0.01$ per point?
http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/store/?cat=cash-bonus&prod=cb-03
I just want to add that you miss a lot of things:
1. milestones are worth A MUCH more! If you do only 1mil VPP per year, you get around 3.4mil FPP = $54,400 and you'll get $28,800 in bonuses (0.8+2+3+4+5+6+8).. but you have to pay 50k FPP per one, so it's -$5,600 =>
54,400 + 28,800 - 5,600 = 77,600 (milestones are worth 0.0232 btw)
2. if you reach SNE, you'll get some tournament packages worth up to 20k (not 100% sure), but you can cash $10k instead of one
3. second year after you first time made SNE, you're earning 43% more points, so getting 5mil FPP in year at least ($80,000 instead of 54.4k)
1. Yep, exactly. Not sure where Verre got that 0.01$ for milestone
2. SNE for a normal player is really hard to achieve. And yeah, you get 2 packages for live tournament of your choice.
+ You can enter some of a freerolls.
Here's a table from some article I was translating. I hope this won't look like gibberish
VIP stopnja 10-max FL (1$/2$) 10-max FL (2$/4$) 10-max FL (5$/10$) 9-max NL (1$/2$) 9-max NL (2$/4$)
SilverStar 26,4% 18,2% 15,0% 15,1% 11,8%
GoldStar 43,1% 29,6% 24,5% 24,5% 19,2%
PlatinumStar 46,6% 32,1% 26,5% 26,6% 20,8%
Supernova1
100k – 199k 66,0% 45,4% 37,5% 37,6% 29,5%
Supernova2 200k – 299k 71,0% 48,8% 40,3% 40,4% 31,7%
Supernova3 300k – 399k 76,1% 52,3% 43,2% 43,3% 33,9%
Supernova4 400k – 499k 81,2% 55,8% 46,1% 46,2% 36,2%
Supernova5 500k – 599k 86,3% 59,3% 49,0% 49,2% 38,5%
Supernova6 600k – 799k 89,6% 61,6% 50,9% 51,1% 40,0%
Supernova7 800k – 999k 92,7% 63,7% 52,6% 52,8% 41,4%
SN Elite 1M 150,3% 103,3% 85,4% 85,6% 67,1%
VIP stopnja 9-max NL (5$/10$) 6-max NL (1$/2$) 6-max NL (2$/4$) 6-max NL (5$/10$) Turnirska igra
SilverStar 13,0% 11,9% 10,0% 10,7% 14,8%
GoldStar 21,1% 19,4% 16,2% 17,5% 27,2%
PlatinumStar 22,9% 21,0% 17,6% 19,0% 27,5%
Supernova1
100k – 199k 32,4% 29,7% 24,9% 26,8% 35,9%
Supernova2 200k – 299k 34,8% 31,9% 26,8% 28,9% 38,3%
Supernova3 300k – 399k 37,3% 34,2% 28,7% 30,9% 40,7%
Supernova4 400k – 499k 39,8% 36,5% 30,6% 33,0% 43,2%
Supernova5 500k – 599k 42,3% 38,8% 32,6% 35,1% 45,7%
Supernova6 600k – 799k 44,0% 40,3% 33,8% 36,4% 47,3%
Supernova7 800k – 999k 45,4% 41,7% 35,0% 37,7% 48,8%
SN Elite 1M 73,7% 67,6% 56,7% 61,1% 68,4%Haha I appologize guys.
I had been up for a long time thinking too much and I totally botched that milestone program. I was doing the calculations based on the VPP amount required in comparison to the bonus unlocked.
This all in all pushes Stars so far over Titan even at micro limits.
So...did anyone make some calculations for No Limit players? Or are the numbers somewhat equivalent? I could send you my database if you wish, but its only 17k on NL50 and 10k on NL20. (also I don't have a clue how to send 'em)
