5-Card Draw Low trips OOP

i'm not so good with 5CD but i have to say before i looked at the results my first thought was that BU might also have trips so i dont blame you for playing cautiously here.

it seems unlikely that worse hands will call, i guess it depends really on how often you have been drawing 2 with trips and how suspicious you think a bet would look after drawing 2. i think it would look pretty strong in a 4 way 3 bet pot.

i) Cap pre. You want to charge UTG and MP to draw, especially if they have a pair, and it's not a disaster if they fold.
ii) Postdraw is trickier, but I certainly think the button can call you with worse. It's much easier to get dealt two pair than trips. Given that it's four way, I'd be inclined to bet/fold, as it's hard to see BTN bluffing into three people, and if he's a decent player as you say, I don't think he's going to either raise pre with a flush draw or raise postdraw with two pair.

Don't give the results next time. I don't think I'm being results-oriented, but you never know.

Originally posted by jbpatzer
i) Cap pre. You want to charge UTG and MP to draw, especially if they have a pair, and it's not a disaster if they fold.

I went 'round and 'round the 2nd-guess carousel on this one, and I pretty much fell off at the same conclusiion:

Reasoning:
Given the tendencies of UTG & MP BTN's 3Bet could be 2pr, though trips and pat hands are possible, but I can get away from those. I did not check his pat frequency, but if it was high, I would have had a note. Even AAxxx is possible for BTN.

Cap might drive out pairs, which increases my chance of staying live.

ii) Postdraw is trickier, but I certainly think the button can call you with worse. It's much easier to get dealt two pair than trips. Given that it's four way, I'd be inclined to bet/fold, as it's hard to see BTN bluffing into three people, and if he's a decent player as you say, I don't think he's going to either raise pre with a flush draw or raise postdraw with two pair.

The other thing here is that capping pre sets up the CBet post-draw.
Just calling pre put me in a corner unless I donk

Thanks,
--VS

Why do you care about BTN? His stack is just $0.36

Originally posted by semmel81
Why do you care about BTN? His stack is just $0.36

Stack size is more-or-less irrelevant in FL, although he certainly can't raise me.

BTN was well known to me, and as I said, was generally a good player.
I thought it possible that he would have a higher trips than I did.

Although standard is to cap pre with trips, I don't like that multi-way, and not with such a low 3-of-a-kind.

Poker is not a facebook - it's not about likes/dislikes, it's about making the most EV+ decision.
If you are ahead than cap this baby.

333 clearly beats UTG and MP range, so EVEN IF you are slightly behind BTN 3-betting range capping still is better.
333 is a median hand to sth like JJup+/QQup+(?) and I guess BTN is 3-betting it all the time, so you are even ahead of his range!

Drawing 2 might scare others players...what if the showdown was like: QQup - KKup - JJup?
So much value missed ♠_frown:
Not only by drawing 2 face up, but also from not taking a full advantage of predraw.
62/23 player will call a cap with any hand that he decide to open raise, I can see him calling with those 99 too

Postdraw with drawings like 3 vs 3 vs 1(BTN) standard VALUE BET all the time.

Hi, Yadumalchtoona18let
Thanks for that!

It sounds like you know your way around 5-Card Draw.

I've been leaving value on the table for quite a while.

If you read the last few entries in my blog, I've been raising whenever I'm ahead or likely to be.

It makes for swingy sessions.

I'm also going to have to organize my bluff-catching.

If ever I call post-draw, they seem to have me beat.

Cheers,
--VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

I've been raising whenever I'm ahead or likely to be.

Fix this leak, and you'll start winning some $$$.

Originally posted by jbpatzer

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

I've been raising whenever I'm ahead or likely to be.

Fix this leak, and you'll start winning some $$$.

Not sure what you're saying here.
Is it the raise part that is the problem, or the "whenever"

I can't see that I'm raising too much -- I'm playing roughly 19/14/5 predraw, which can't be anywhere near excessive.

Or perhaps you're saying that I need to be raising with some part of my "not ahead nor likely to be" range. I've been doing this a bit more recently -- see my blog post from last night.

Cheers,
--VS

I mean you raise to get called by worse, not because you're ahead. I suppose fl games preflop are a bit different, but it's the same principle.

Originally posted by jbpatzer
I mean you raise to get called by worse, not because you're ahead. I suppose fl games preflop are a bit different, but it's the same principle.

Hmmm.....

Reasons to raise:
♦  Get called by worse
♦  Get better to fold
♦  Cash-in Equity
♦  Balance

Often, if all worse hands fold, you get the blinds.
If worse (or better) DO call, then it is a drawing race -- and we have a post-draw dynamic to deal with.

The statement "I've been raising whenever I'm ahead or likely to be. " was specifically referring to situations where I had a hand that exceeded the mid-way point of opponents perceived range and had been flatting them.

In fact it was you that pointed out that TTxxx in the BB is often a 3Betting hand. That is just an example.

In this case worse will quite possibly call, but I'm happy with a fold as well.

Another is the hand I posted where the advice was to cap pre w/ 333, since doing otherwise is "leaving money on the table". There definitely times when I would NOT cap this pre -- but that depends on the player involved.

So by raising more, I think I am more PLUGGING a leak than creating one.

My far-and-away biggest leak though is "calling with worse"

Cheers,
--VS